Richard Dawkins and Christmas

When asked about his Christmas philosophy, he had the following to say:

“Presumably your reason for asking me is that ‘The God Delusion’ is an atheistic book, and you still think of Christmas as a religious festival,” Mr. Dawkins wrote, in a reply printed here in its entirety. “But of course it has long since ceased to be a religious festival. I participate for family reasons, with a reluctance that owes more to aesthetics than atheistics. I detest Jingle Bells, White Christmas, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, and the obscene spending bonanza that nowadays seems to occupy not just December, but November and much of October, too.”
He added: “So divorced has Christmas become from religion that I find no necessity to bother with euphemisms such as happy holiday season. In the same way as many of my friends call themselves Jewish atheists, I acknowledge that I come from Christian cultural roots. I am a post-Christian atheist. So, understanding full well that the phrase retains zero religious significance, I unhesitatingly wish everyone a Merry Christmas.”

“Jewish atheist.” I think I’ll go with that one.
Merry Christmas to all.

What is a Jewish atheist? Is that anything like a Catholic atheist?

Woody Allen. All the Jewish cultural baggage and the ethnicity, but the religion is nowhere to be found.

I thought you were going to talk about the guy from Family Fued.

Ah. So that would be someone whose entire family tree for 2,500 years is completely filled with Jews, but who figures he knows better than all of them.

Sounds very enlightened.

A so no room for non-believers in your world? I suppose the idea of giving up slavery after thousands of years seems like an absurd idea too.

Yep, now there is a thought for Christmas Eve. Religion equals slavery.

Merry Christmas to you and your family, rundhc.

“now there is a thought for Christmas Eve. Religion equals slavery.”

There are times when the ever lasting debate on this topic should be put on hold. This is one of those times.

To all the Christians - Merry Christmas. I sincerely hope you all have a nice celebration in whatever manner you and your family choose be it spiritual or other.

To all the non-Christians - Have a Nice Day!

Well said.

Merry Christmas.

The only “real” first-hand experience I have with the Jewish culture/religion is with my sister’s boyfriend (of 8 years). He fulfills ALL of the expectations of the Jewish culture (Russian Jew). He’s highly educated, attended Jewish schools, lives in a Jewish community in Chicago, is a dentist, is frugal with his money, etc." But, from a religious standpoint, he simply isn’t all that religious. We’ve had some interesting discussions with him during holidays, etc. We’re a CHristian family, and found it interesting that as a Jew, he wasn’t taught anything about Jesus … the name is rarely if ever mentioned in his upbringing and schooling. We’ve shared ideas without trying to force it on him.

It would appear (and I am only basing this on observation and discussion), that being “Jewish” is very important to him, from a cultural and societal standing, with him … but the religious aspect isn’t a big focus with him. The differences in culture have been a major obstacle with he and my sister getting married (Simply, his parents, specifically a dominant mother, demand he marries a Jewish girl). He has wishes that his children (when/if they have them) attend Jewish schools, and are brought up the traditional Jewish culture way … but doesn’t seem pre-occupied with the religious aspects and traditions.

I find it very interesting, and I find him to be the type of guy an older brother would want his sister to marry. It was sort of surprising to me that people could be so involved in the Jewish aspect of things, but not the religion part, as I was always under the impression that the two were inseperable and intertwined significantly.

Ironically, he celebrates Christmas with us (more of an American culture thing, not in a religious way), but does not celebrate Hannakuh, nor does he attend Temple or anything related.


Ken, I have always viewed Dawkins as a “military atheist” in that he goes full throttle against religious people with the “mentally inferior” type of sentiments … and I admit that bothers me (not in an angry way). I also understand where Dawkins comes from with his passion because he has routinely been ambushed, intentionally misquoted, and “set up” by the ID crowd and those that try to equate religion with science in terms of the creation v. evolution debate. In short, creationists haven’t displayed very “Christian” behaviors when dealing with Dawkins and he seems pretty jaded by his experiences with them. In short, he doesn’t view religious people very highly or as being very moral people. Simply put, I get the feeling he views many of them (perhaps all) as being hypocrits that say one thing, but live another.

I notice that you have quoted him a few times, and wonder (from a personal interest standpoint) if you feel that his views are interesting to you and if they represent your own views in any way? (If you would rather answer this in a PM, feel free … I don’t want to create the perception that I am calling you out in any way, and I would hope that you would know that). Also, have you read any of his books? I have been meaning to read his “The Blind Watchmaker” and “The Selfish Gene”, but have yet got around to it. He, more than any other “atheistic” writer, seems to mix his philosophy and science (at least in his books, not his scientific papers) in a way where it could be hard for a neophyte reader (to the subject) to determine what is “science” and what is “philosophy”. That used to bother me, but once I understood that he is presenting his own views and conclusions in his books, doesn’t trouble me any more.

At the very least, I find him to be an interesting guy. Certainly, I don’t agree with many of his comments, but I also find him to be thought-provoking. He’s one of those guys that you hear or read his writings and you are compelled to feel something. You can’t ignore him or hand-wave him aside … I guess that’s what I am getting at.

Art, don’t over interpret things. My only point was that just because things have historical longevity doesn’t mean that they are the only legitimate way of doing things. But if you really want to be the arbiter of who is Jewish, and who is not, knock yourself out. Have a good x-mas.

Well, I had a nice atheist-Christian xmas. Giving gifts and spending time with people you love is fun - no matter what you believe. So is getting time off work!

Ken, I have always viewed Dawkins as a “military atheist” in that he goes full throttle against religious people with the “mentally inferior” type of sentiments … and I admit that bothers me

That’s interesting to me. “The God Delusion” was an x-mas present to myself, and to a couple of other people. I haven’t finished it yet, but I’m enjoying it greatly.

I was fascinated by the reputation that Dawkins had apparently developed in the US as aggressive, arrogant, disrespectful and all things nasty. Then I heard him interviewed, and listened to a lecture he gave in Philadelphia recently. I found him to be witty, humble, engaging, honest, and certainly willing to be held to the same standards of intellectual rigour that he seeks from his critics. I think he inspires such fury because, i) he insists that the non-religious have as much right to be heard as the religious, ii) he makes too much sense, and asks too many questions that theists are uncomfortable answering and iii) he openly invites the religious to question their beliefs and even to walk away from the religion in which they were raised.

You’re right that his arguments are hard to dismiss with a wave of the hand. Can you describe which of his comments you most disagreed with.

I was fascinated by the reputation that Dawkins had apparently developed in the US as aggressive, arrogant, disrespectful and all things nasty. Then I heard him interviewed, and listened to a lecture he gave in Philadelphia recently. I found him to be witty, humble, engaging, honest, and certainly willing to be held to the same standards of intellectual rigour that he seeks from his critics.

Like most folks, he howls at the moon and naps in the sun (if those analogies mean anything, heh heh). His attitude usually reflects whom he is speaking/writing to.

I know many atheists/agnostics would prefer Dawkins be the spoeksman representing evolution in “tv debates” instead of “Genie/Jeannie Wahteverherlastnameis” (head of NCSA, I believe) because she’s so polite to the pastor/Reverend she’s “debating” as to create the illusion that they (evolution & creation) are on equal scientific footing. They want Dawkins to get on there and demand “Shuddup you dumb SOB until you can show me your positive scientific proof!”

You’re right that his arguments are hard to dismiss with a wave of the hand. Can you describe which of his comments you most disagreed with.

Sure. Let me find a few snippets that summarize his main points, and I’ll start a new thread.