No matter how much we complain about the lameness and bogartishness of the WTC they will not change until they are forced to change = when a competitor raises the stakes and forces it.
I think some of your and Rapp’s ideas are great (in fact, I think generally speaking they always are). I’m only taking issue with slamming the WTC for lack of stewardship (not that you really were, but one could surmise from your comments that you don’t think of them as stewards).
This is purely my observation, but the Stewardship, that I’m talking about was most important when the sport was smaller, the Ironman was really the only game in town, numbers actually tailed off in the mid-90’s, sponsors were hard to find, they really did not have much competition. The stewardship can be, or is your motivator. Today, the dynamics are somewhat to very different - chiefly, the size of the sport is much bigger and there is competition ( competition for participants and competition for sponsors), so a key motivator becomes the competition and a pursuit of dollars( which is not a bad thing, it’s the reality of any business - if you are not making money, you’ll be out of business at some point!!)
As a fan, I want to see the best athletes race against each other. I consider only about 10 ironman athletes on the level of the best athletes in more established sports (cycling, marathon running). The huge time differences and the fact, that former cyclists place in the top 20 AFTER finishing their career even in Kona, show that.
Given, that many athletes race “at home” or at a “favorite race” for sponsorship reasons, doing any type of “grand slam” or multiple “most important races” will thin this field in a way, that I (and I consider myselve a rather huge fan, the average fan would not finish 15 of those races and as an european stay up all night to watch a terrible kona internet tv farce where PNF interviews herselve about god knows what) would stop caring about the result. Instead of the ironwar and the battle for niece, one guy would dominate the world championship, the other one kona and the third the “mister universe of tri” or whatever.
There are simply not enough top top athletes to split them up any further, Ironman Austria, Ironman New Zealand, everyone knows the winner before and the question is mainly, whether he wins by 10 or 15 minutes. Roth, Frankfurt? Main question is, if the course was “improved” enough, to yield the dedicated winner a “world record”.
Maybe I would continue to watch, but for the overall popularity of triathlon, ONE race, where it all happens, seems best. This will always be Kona for me, there is a number of world championships already, nobody cares for. Even the most fanatic followers of triathlon would be hard pressed, to name last years 70,3 or 51.whatever champions or the other companies (challenge …) champions.
One way to make the grand slam idea work might be, to have 4 Kona Qualifiers, where 3 athletes each qualify for the “big dance”. Only 12 pros in Kona, huge pricemoney and everyone trying to qualify in this 4 race … that would be a belter 
I would like to see that for agegroups as well ,lets have a double qualification system, where you have to qualifiy for the "grand slam " first and in the grand slam it is a race for the place.
If the WC was in Europe they would not get it and it frankly would suck.
I’d disagree, especially if you stop, step back and take a broad perspective, I think you would see a much deeper race at the front if the IM world championship rotated. IMH is a very selective race with the heat, humidity and wind. It’s going to select some fast guys right out.
I’m friends with some german based pro’s. Doing well at IMG and Roth, and I’d guess Regensberg although i’ve not asked, are worth more financially to them then doing well at IMH. A 2nd or 3rd at IMH isn’t worth as much to their overall financial picture as a 6th or 8th at one of the major races in their neck of the woods.
Now, finally, from a personal perspective, limited as it is, racing in the EU (3-4races), or internationally (~10 or so races) typically is a a better overall experience then racing in the US. In the US 70.3’s are often treated as a road clogging distraction. Most of my international racing experience has been vastly different with completely closed roads, lots of people lining the courses and start times that are not 6am to get everyone off the roads by X o clock.
slowman:
unfortunately, WTC has an easy answer to pros like you. who do you speak for, besides yourselves? until more than a handful of pro athletes are able to speak through one person, with one voice, on issues, WTC can fob off your individual criticisms as just disparate whinings.
so what about pursuing a pro racers’ union? other pro sports obviously have vibrant players’ unions to counterbalance the owners unfortunate tendencies. If Slowman’s “one voice” could be achieved, it seems like it could be really helpful for addressing a lot of the issues you raise. probably not abandoning Kona as the WC site, but fostering a more steward-like and favorable approach by WTC to things like qualification, prize money allocation etc.
Hi Dev,
You may agree or disagree, but I think the reason so few people watch triathlons, is that they are boring to watch. And without lots of viewers, there will always be relatively Low media attention, and mild sponsorship dollars or pro pay.
In my observations, team sports that do well in the media tend to have regional or city afiliations like NFL football, or European soccer. Individual sports that get media attention are the ones with longish athlete careers such as race car driving, golf, and tennis.
Also, most of the sports that seem to do well (except perhaps race cars), are frequently offered to kids in that region. I see local kids triathlons here, but no formal structure for kids to enter a triathlon club.
So, in my estimation, triathlons may remain popular as something to do, but will not be watched by many under the current format, with the pro paychecks continuing to be mediocre without the money brought by media attention.
Now, add a regional pro team element, and drafting, and a better viewing arrangement like those trithlon park videos, and maybe you have something the media would grab. Just be careful what you wish for or you will get texas holdem at T1 and cage fighting at t2, or perhaps you will get the lingerie triathlon league or something.
yeah…defintely good points…much more exciting to watch Sharapova for a TV viewer than watching Chrissie Wellington win by 20 minutes…I still think that pro tri TV coverage out of Kona is treated like a bit of a joke. It could be packaged much more effectively so that it is the main show and the age group stories are not the main show.
You have obviously not raced in Europe. IM frankfurt was live on TV in Germany. Cafes were advertising the fact that they were showing it live, even Kona doesn’t get this coverage! You could argue that europeans ‘get it’ more than americans, they concentrate on racing rather than complain about the size of the medal or family members in the finish chute.
I, too, want to race Kona again as a world championship. If the pros were not there, it would not be the same–for me. Part of the alure is seeing the top athletes in the world racing beside me. Yes, all the hype of the TV is important too.
I hope the WTC would sit down with the pros and come up with something that works for all. The pros have had problems with Ironman since the very beginning (of pros). Dave Scott held out a year until there was prize money, if I recall correctly.
I am not sure the pros are united enough to get their wishes met.
Kona is the place where the Ironman World Championships should stay.
“If it was just an iron distance race in Kona that would also have no appeal.”
i don’t see this happening. here’s a question for you. when you move through the sporting world, sport by sport, in what sport does the world championship designation hold the highest prestige?
for example, in cycling, would you rather win the world championship in road cycling? or would you rather win something else? like a grand tour? or even a particular spring classic, like paris roubaix? likewise in running. swimming, i’ll grant you, i don’t know if there are swimming “classics” that meet or exceed the prestige of a WC. but tennis, football, golf, basketball, baseball, i can’t think of many sports where a particular meet or even diminishes because it isn’t a WC.
furthermore, i cannot think of one WC that’s perennially in one spot.
so, i think what jordan argues for is for WTC to believe in Kona as much as he believes in Kona. if i understand him, jordan does not think kona will diminish at all if the WC rotates from the U.S. to europe, to australia, and so forth.
once, when i was working at saucony, running its bike division, i asked the president of its technical footwear division who he’d prefer to have under contract, the olympic marathon champion, or a four-time boston marathon champion. he said, “i’d rather have the one-time boston marathon champion.”
and that’s the point jordan’s trying to make. he’d love to race, and even design a season around, kona. but, as kona the classic race, not as kona the WC.
even if kona remained the perennial WC for amateurs, but the pro world championship rotated, that would be an enhancement to the ironman brand and its legitimacy as an international, egalitarian, worldwide cultural institution.
I did a quick google search on your buddy.
Let’s just say I lost any respect I had for WTC. Jesse can race, and probably crush most people here on the boards (he can beat me). I don’t know if he’s upset he’s not as fast as others, but I can not comprehend how WTC can treat the Pro’s and triathlon in general so badly. Yeah, there’s more WTC races, but they’ve also ruined classics (Timberman) and pushed locals out (Muncie). I always heard Providence bought them b/c of some “CEO” was interested, but this guy thinks highly of himself as a racer, as seen here .
I think what we need to do instead is get the sponsors to start speaking up. K-Swiss shouldn’t throw money in Kona anymore, put the million dollar challenge at Rev3 or Challenge Roth.
It sounds like the professionals need to develop a “players union” that stands unified and tries to develop a dialogue with WTC on matters such as these. Unfortunately, the professionals do not have any leverage because nearly all of WTC’s profits come from age groupers, unlike most other professional sports. Therefore, professionals boycotting WTC events would not undercut WTC’s profits at all.
Sanctity, respect, honor, stewardship, and all other similar principles in the 21st century have taken a backseat to big business nearly everywhere you look. The majority of people in those executive, “decision-making” positions only care if they are forced to care. It is a rarity to find someone in that position of power who acts based on goodwill rather than self-interest and bottom lines. From a sociological standpoint, this has become the modus operandi of both the middle and upper class in the past 30-40 years. The majority of people that fall into the aforementioned categories have gradually become privatized and disconnected from community on all fronts. This philosophical and sociological change has made its way from the living room to the board room. People don’t really care about other people anymore, and corporate entities surely don’t either.
Remember, relationships are based on need. The WTC does not NEED the pro’s. They NEED the age groupers.
It sounds like the professionals need to develop a “players union” that stands unified and tries to develop a dialogue with WTC on matters such as these.
There is/was a try at unionization about 4-5 years ago headed by some decent size names. That didn’t work. There was another attempt, MarkyV could give more insight, but that doesn’t seem to have any sway over RD’s either. The elites have a seat, maybe more at the board of USAT to look after their slice of the pie, but that slice is a far bit away from IM racing since it’s Olympic focused.
In the past any attempt has been met with little support from elites. You often get what you vote for, since they (elites) can’t even organize a into a union they get squat.
There have been some outspoken ones, Erin Baker about unequal prize money in Avignon, and recently some elites paused at the finis line to make sure people got in under the 8% rule. History shows us though it’s more about protests then organization, and while a protest or two can change things for the better, a player’s union typically is a better bet.
The history and tradition of Kona is a huge part of it being the WC. I think Roth has that energy and feel for the Europeans and much of the world. Boston is more of a WC than the marathon WC-- more prestige-I believe.
I think if you moved the WC from Kona it would be bad for the race (Kona) and for the city/island. I wonder how the money would be affect in Kona if the pros were not there for a world championship.
Certainly, the pros need a more fair system "qualifying for the Ironman WC. Pros need to advocate for themselves AND their sponsors need to be working with the WTC to affect change.
I think (hope) that the WTC will make some changes for next year. It will be an interesting month.
I, also, think that some pros need to be better advocates for their sponsors. Rappstar has a forum and does much for his sponsors. He is articulate and helps those on this forum be informed about his sponsors products. However, many pros use the products and show up for trade shows or interviews at races, but do not really help inform me why they love their sponsors product.
Where are the pros and former pros advocting for discussion with the WTC, if they have concerns? I have heard many of the pros voice concerns, but it doesn’t seem to be a unified effort.
I know my thoughts are tainted by my own memories of Valorie Silk puting that lei and medal around my neck so many years ago. Yes, Ironman has changed a lot since then. But if you watch TV, it seems the same in Kona. Like others have said, If you mention Ironman, everyone asks you if you have done Kona-----Kona is Ironman to most of the world. I love that tradition.
“Is the sport better today than it was when the WTC got involved? (My opinion is that it is substantially so)”
Bad choice, I would disagree. There are far more complaints now, from all levels of athletes.
The races are too crowded and people feel they’re being ripped off. (they choose to be of course). The whole ironman experience has been turned into a circus.
It only seems to be really special to first timers and lifers.
Kona is not sacred ground to the pros. What would happen if one of the larger independents started a “real world championship” on the same day and offered appearance money to all the Kona qualifiers?
We may find out sooner than you think.
Olaf Sabatschus was the guy who tried to organize that movement and it really did not go anywhere despite his good intentions.
Seems like there is not much cohesive thought or organization among pro-triatheltes.
That, or most Pros have really shitty Agents…but more likely no agents at all.
I think that USAT and other NGBs are at least partially to blame for the inability of pros to organize. In the US, for example, there are 300+ elite license holders. The standards to get a pro license are absurdly low. Tell me, for example, what some guy who is really just a fast age grouper who wants to “test himself” against the pros has in common with someone like Andy Potts? How is an organization supposed to effectively represent them both. Triathlon Canada has even easier standards for long course. Are you a man and have finished an Ironman in under TEN hours? You get to be a pro. Woman? 10:45.
With the NGBs holding the all the decision making power on what it means to be a pro - and with said NGBs having zero common standards - I don’t really think a union can ever really and truly succeed. Guys playing single-A ball don’t get to influence the CBA for MLB.
The most effective way to organize the pros would be for Ironman/WTC (ironically) to set their own universal standards for who can buy an Ironman Pro Membership. Just like the PGA or PTA does. But it’s hard to ask the group you need the union to bargain with to create that union. And until then, it’s always going to be somewhat disparate.
Though I actually think it would be in WTC’s best interest to enforce such a standard and to create such a group. I think they’d have higher quality performances at their races and would have an easier time getting quality feedback.
well–I respect your opinion sir, but I must say it is wrong…
well this seems a little naive my friend. If I was half as good as Jesse I’d have an awesome blog as well…well I am half as good as Jesse and I have a pretty self-indulgent blog…what’s your point? In case you didn’t notice we are in a pretty self-indulgent and selfish sport. Personally, I’m glad we have someone like Jesse weighing in at the board meetings. Would you rather have someone who never works out in his place? Pleae be real dude…
Slowman wrote all about the various attempts at organizing a ‘union’ of sorts here. Things haven’t changed much since 1999.