Given flat courses and low-to-moderate wind conditions is it always better to race with a disc compared to a 60mm or 90mm deep rear rim? Aero charts and graphs say so. Does the affect of wind mostly apply to your front wheel choice, or the rear just the same. I am a 200-205 lb 20-21 mph avg rider. Jack Mott quotes "always use a disc… whould most of you agree. Do not want to but a 60 or 90 mm rear if the disc will be faster.
Always use the disc…well…unless the race consists of ALOT of climbing. There was one race this year where I opted for a 90/90 instead of my BW100/disc. There were 2 huge climbs coupled with 4 very fast downhills, with a crosswind and fast switchbacks. I just couldn’t see hitting the switchbacks at 40mph with a disc in a crosswind and have that thing skip out on me. The climbs made the disc a no no, way too steep and too long.
Other then this one race, I’ve raced a disc for over 10 years in every race.
I do not want to sound like a ZIPP commercial but if I ride my disc no matter what (as long as it is legal). There are some instances where if the wind is at the right angle and you are riding a Sub9 you can actually get a little bit of a “pull” from the wind. Yes, this is based on what a friend of mine who works at Zipp told me. I ride a DISC back and a 1080 front. The DISC can also stableize you some. Most of the “tossing around in the wind” will come from your front.
So back to your question, Flat Course, Low to Moderate wind… break out the DISC and hammer it home.
at this point I think people are just baiting me
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at this point I think people are just baiting me
jack, at least one thread per day is jackbait
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at this point I think people are just baiting me
jack, at least one thread per day is jackbait
thats it
im not eating any more
.
Jack, it was seriously a legitimate question. I am into my 4th year and have been back and forth about the one set of aero rims I want to buy. I was landing near the Hed Jet 6/9 or Zipp 606 clincher setup. Since they are an all-around good choice for most conditions was my train of thought. But now I wonder if I should just focus on race only wheels being a 404 front or Hed 60 front with a disc. I have OEM rims to train on anyway. Again I really want to spend my $$ wisely and think a disc might be the way to go. I am not worried about wind at 200+, just being faster.
yeah its just that someone asks every day =)
a disc wheel is faster in every condition, except maybe a time trial that is uphill only, or uphill with a super technical downhill.
if you want you can get a jet6/9 rear wheel and put a wheel cover on it. then you have your bases covered if you go to kona (Disc not allowed) or do a time trial up Jester or Mount Ventoux 
Jack, it was seriously a legitimate question. I am into my 4th year and have been back and forth about the one set of aero rims I want to buy. I was landing near the Hed Jet 6/9 or Zipp 606 clincher setup. Since they are an all-around good choice for most conditions was my train of thought. But now I wonder if I should just focus on race only wheels being a 404 front or Hed 60 front with a disc. I have OEM rims to train on anyway. Again I really want to spend my $$ wisely and think a disc might be the way to go. I am not worried about wind at 200+, just being faster.
an 808 gives you nearly all the advantages of a disc, is slightly lighter, and on roads in the real world rides one a heck of a lot better. i like to keep my fillings in my teeth …
rides a heck of a lot better than what?
not better than a hed jet disc
or an 808 with a wheelcover =)
an 808 gives you nearly all the advantages of a disc, is slightly lighter, and on roads in the real world rides one a heck of a lot better. i like to keep my fillings in my teeth …
better than any type of solid disc.
so of course this does not include the jet “disc”, or an 808 with a warped wheel cover …
I agree, I think you have a fair point GregX,
Aero wind tests are one thing, but on the road I have often wondered how much we can transfer from wind tunnel to actual time.
For example, a really bumpy pothole filled road makes a disc bounce a lot, and some people take corners slower etc…
We are only talking small differences in the wind tunnel of a disc over a deep dish wheel. I think the deep dish wheel offers other advantages that may save time, such as being connected with the road more and handling better…
Have a look here - not much advantage of disc over deep dish
http://www.spinlitecycling.com/ZippAeroEdgeFlyer.pdf
With an 808 front, the difference between a 1080, 900, Sub9 is 2s, 18s respectively. That isn’t much. And throw into the mix that some manufacturers are producing bikes that are faster with a flat disc then a Bulge disc (900 vs Sub9) and all the other little differences between the way each individual frame interacts with wheels and rider then I think a lot of things even out.
Here according to HED, the Stinger Disc is only faster then the Stinger 9 aerodynamically some of the time
http://www.hedcycling.com/aerodynamics_technology/
Don’t get me wrong, I think a disc CAN be faster, but claims that it is always faster except for hilly courses need too many asterisks’ next to them to be blanket statements.
Ideally we’d all have a selection of wheels to choose from, but I reckon that in order of purchase for race wheels:
Medium Depth front (40 to 60mm)
Deep Depth rear (60 to 110mm)
Deep Depth front (60 to 110mm)
Disc rear
Yes I think the deep depth front will save you more time then the rear disc, have a look at Zipp results when you add a 1080 front.
one thing I find interesting is that after all these years of aero this and that over the past decade or more - bike split times in triathlon don’t appear to be that much faster if at all. And overall times aren’t either.
For example, a really bumpy pothole filled road makes a disc bounce a lot, and some people take corners slower etc…
There are plenty of disc solutions on the market that don’t have that problem.
bike split times in triathlon don’t appear to be that much faster if at all. And overall times aren’t either.
actually when i bothered to graph this out over time there was definitely a downward trend in bike times, and it was steeper than the downward trend of run times.
and that was just comparing Kona, where it is so windy that aero this and that probably IS a waste of time.
For example, a really bumpy pothole filled road makes a disc bounce a lot, and some people take corners slower etc…
There are plenty of disc solutions on the market that don’t have that problem.
You might know - the Head Stinger Disc, I can't ascertain from their website written word or pictures whether it is a carbon structural disc or not? It doesn't mention anything about the contruction that's useful.
Why doesn’t HED make a standard disc?
I don’t know about the stinger. I know their Jet disc, which comes in tubular and clincher, is a spoked wheel (hed jet90) with a cover.
so i think the stinger is probably structural.
For example, a really bumpy pothole filled road makes a disc bounce a lot, and some people take corners slower etc…
There are plenty of disc solutions on the market that don’t have that problem.
You might know - the Head Stinger Disc, I can't ascertain from their website written word or pictures whether it is a carbon structural disc or not? It doesn't mention anything about the contruction that's useful.
Why doesn’t HED make a standard disc?