I am convinced that the reason there is a large % of Americans against our involvement in the GWOT is the constant non stop in your face reporting of terrorist acts in Iraq. Long before 9/11 terrorists were blowing up people and places almost daily. These commonplace occurences received little more than below the fold or page 2 mention. The difference was we (the US) weren’t involved to the degree we are now. So whats the difference? We still have radical extremists blowing up innocent people. Nothing has changed except the way its reported. What would happen if we withdraw from Iraq as some on both sides have demanded? Would the terrorist acts just miraculously stop? I think not. Where would the outrage be from the mainstream media and the now antiwar crowd? My guess is out of sight out of mind. The attacks would continue and they would receive the same pre 9/11 coverage. See this article for examples http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/?id=110006837
I can only summize that there is a definite collective movement to blame America for all of the worlds problems. I wonder why that is? We are not perfect by any stretch but I think our intentions for the most part are noble. No where in history has a country been as willing to shed the blood of their sons and daughters so others can live in freedom as we have. As much as one single death, and I just lost a good friend in Iraq last week, is a tragedy, we can not and must not retreat now. We have to stay the course until the job is done. When will that be? I don’t know and I bet nobody knows. If we put a mark on the wall and announce our intent to pull out at a certain time don’t you think the terrorists will simply bide their time until we are gone then return to blowing up innocent people? My bet is of course. This war is not like any other in history. There is no clearly defined battlefield with an easily identified enemy. Have we (the military) made mistakes? You bet. Are we learning from those mistakes? Again you bet. Our whole doctrine of fighting has and is changing as we face this new enemy. It is a work in progress and we will get better at it. There is of course a learning curve and often a cost in human lives. That unfortunately is the nature of war.
Sorry for the rambling and vent. Some of the other threads here recently and the loss of my friend just pisses me off. My friends daughter is also a classmate and friend of my sons. Last week at their 8th grade graduation you could have heard a pin drop when she walked across the stage. When they handed her her diploma, with tears in her eyes, the place erupted into a huge applause and standing ovation. We all lost it and started crying as well. I would challenge anyone to tell that family that he died in vain and for nothing. I can tell you he nor they believe that. If someone, and their family, is willing to make the supreme sacrifice how do anonymous people sitting behind some keyboard have a right to criticize them?
Sorry for the loss of your friend. My condolences to you & to his family.
Your 1st paragraph—my initial thought was “extra large serving of red kool-aid today”: Bush Co. didn’t plan for the post-battlefield. That is painfully clear. Friedman had a great editorial last week about this. However nobody on Bush Co. is taking any responsibility for the fiasco (a hallmark of this administration) and people keep dying. Too late for more boots on the ground–military can’t handle it, and it won’t fly politically.
Terrorist attacks always made the news, especially when it had anything to do with Israel, but if it was in some backwater country most Americans could give a shit. Now whether Jessica Simpson has gained any weight–that is what they care about. Out-of-site-out-of-mind is an American hallmark. Just look at Darfur for proof of that.
Terrorist attacks in Iraq are a direct result of our actions there. We won the war, we own the aftermath.
Paragraph #2: 200 years of Imperialism has pretty much left us the poster child for good intentions/piss-poor execution. The amount of hypocrisy in our actions is staggering.
My predicition right now is that the pressure to leave will mount–mid-term elections may get ugly if the losses continue to mount, and the political pressure to get out of there is growing. Unless things turn better in a hurry, as soon as we pull out a civil war of some sorts, in some areas of the country will occur, and we’ll be blamed. Bush Co. made a mess of things, and most members of both parties are not willing to pay the political price. With '08 on the horizon, unless we are either out of there in time for most Americans to forget about Iraq, the Repubs will lose some elections over the issue & they aren’t willing to let that happen. Similar to Vietnam–the military may be winning the war on the ground, but the politicians will lose the war at home.
And yes, people hiding behind anonymity on the board is BS. If you have enough conviction to put it out there, publicly stand behind your beliefs. Otherwise it is just nameless/blameless blather.
One of my best friends from college is in Iraq, and whenever I get a call from an area code I don’t recognize I don’t want to answer for fear of what the news might be.
Sensationalism: Events…big and small…like terrorist bombings in Iraq…further the liberals contention that we are still losing the war in Iraq. The media always wants to point out what’s going wrong instead of what we’re doing right. As we all know, but the liberal meadia doesn’t want to recognize, is that the US and other coalition members involvement in Iraq is on a whole making the area and our world safer.
Jealousy: Face it. The US is the lone superpower. Along with that title comes the criticism. Our actions, big or small, will always be open to criticism. The countries of Europe continue to lose their economic and militaristic significance in the world arena. In short, they’re losing their identity and are in a crisis. Instead of focusing on their own issues and helping they’d rather sit on the sidelines and be armchair quarterbacks.
It’s so easy to lose sight of what things were like in Iraq and Afghanistan prior to our invasion. Our own country’s history is proof positive that the road to democracy and freedom is a rocky one. Part of the priviledge of living in a democracy is voicing displeasure. In doing so the truth can easily be overshadowed by criticism.
Too many Americans are dying in Iraq. I am not sure the cause they are dying for is clear. Iraq was no danger to the US. We made a mistake. Too many american soldiewrs are dying in Iraq.
However, we can not just bring them home. We must finish the job. That would be a bigger mistake than going in.
I would have rather concentrated our efforts on Afganistan.
The war was based on “faulty Intel”. The Germans stried to tell us that “curveball” was unworthy of our trust. If 1 American soldier dies as a result of a mistake that is 1 too many.
This war was flawed from the onset.
It seemes we had a plan for war but nothing after the fall of Bahgdad.
Every timeline and milestone has been reached since we’ve been there. Interim government was set up…elections took place…a congress is being developed. I don’t know how you can say that there wasn’t a plan if all of the infrastructure exists on a timely basis.
I will agree that the occupation was short of manpower but it looks like we’ve arrived at the right level. However, on the grand scale I think we’ve accomplished alot despite bumps along the way.
Sorry for your loss. I re-read your post and I think I understand your frustration. However, do you see the Iraqi situation as a conflict that will eventually resolve itself into a peaceful democratic situation or not? Are you willing to ship American soldiers over to Iraq for the next 10+ years to preserve the peace there while there are places in our own country you’d be crazy to go to after dark? I am all for the support of worthy situations when they occur but Iraq, after Saddam was removed, (which I believe was the real goal), is not worth the American blood and $$$ being spent there.
Concur with everything you said, and I am truly sorry for the loss of your friend. Thinking of his daughter growing up with a father is enough to make me get a littly misty.
I’ll chime in here. First, any death is horrible, and the loss of your friend must be staggering. I just spent an evening hosting 2 wounded vets in DC, and it was an eye opener. Don’t believe all the hype that all soldiers are for the war.
First, I am peeved that I was lied to about going to war in Iraq. I never thought the WMD story held much water, but now that it has truly been dispelled, I more peeved that nobody is owning up to their mistakes. Most likely because the REAL reason why we are there has more to do with:
Oil–lest we forget we are trying to tackle only the supply side of this problem and not the demand.
Create a democratic domino effect in the ME…first Iraq, then Lebanon, then Syria…unfortunately we have been in bed with SA and Egypt too long to effectively change their governments, even though they are so anti-democratic it’s not funny (what’s the old phrase? sometimes a good dictatorship is better than a flawed democracy?).
Unfortunately, we are not quite sly enough to pull off our policy without the overt appearance of an occupation. That never sits right with the natives. Didn’t here back in the day, and doesn’t there.
My prediction is within 3 years, Iraq will be back to self-government, but not in a way we like. The Palestinian Authority has elections, and do we trust them? Hell no. So, Iraq will be effectively split by religous sects, unable to trust one another, and will either decentralize or subvert to civil war. Neither of which seems to be a 'stablizing force in the region."
But, back to the originally stated goal of our war: to fight terrorism. If that were really the goal, we would have invaded Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Comment on that, please.
"I think the more accurate way to approach this right now is to concede that ... this insurgency is not going to be settled, the terrorists and the terrorism in Iraq is not going to be settled, through military options or military operations," Brig. Gen. Donald Alston, the chief U.S. military spokesman in Iraq, said last week, in a comment that echoes what other senior officers say. "It's going to be settled in the political process."
Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, expressed similar sentiments, calling the military's efforts "the Pillsbury Doughboy idea" — pressing the insurgency in one area only causes it to rise elsewhere.
"Like in Baghdad," Casey said during an interview with two newspaper reporters, including one from Knight Ridder, last week. "We push in Baghdad — they're down to about less than a car bomb a day in Baghdad over the last week — but in north-center (Iraq) ... they've gone up," he said. "The political process will be the decisive element."
....Lt. Col. Frederick P. Wellman, who works with the task force overseeing the training of Iraqi security troops, said the insurgency doesn't seem to be running out of new recruits, a dynamic fueled by tribal members seeking revenge for relatives killed in fighting.
"We can't kill them all," Wellman said. "When I kill one I create three."
I’ll comment, thanks. Invade Saudi Arabia? Why? Because many of the 9-11 terrorists were Saudis? That makes lots of sense. By that logic, we should invade Britain because of the shoe bomber, Richard Reid. There are no terrorist training bases in either Saudi Arabia or Pakistan that I’m aware of, and both governments have been helpful to the US in pursuing the GWOT. If I remember correctly, Afghanistan was the base of operations for Al Qaeda, and the Taliban were their willing cohorts. Would be interested to hear the reasons on why we should invade SA and Pakistan…comment on that, please.
As to the WMD, this is really getting tiresome. The belief that Iraq had WMD was not something that the Bush administration invented in Jan 2001 when it took office. The Clinton administration, Sen. Kerry (in his capacity as chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee), France, England, Germany, etc, etc, all were convinced that Iraq had WMDs. Don’t believe me…just type in “Clinton and Iraq WMD” and any of the others into Yahoo or Google, and you can read to your heart’s content. The indisputable bottom line…everyone was convinced that Iraq had WMD, not just Bush. Clinton has even been quoted as saying that he believed Iraq had WMD up until inspections following the opening phase of OIF didn’t turn up any.
Invading Iraq for the oil…yep, there’s lots of logic in that. So far, fat lot of good its done us. But I am interested to hear…how exactly is this going to work? How would the US benefit from taking over Iraq for the oil? I keep hearing this as if its some simple thing, but I think its more a pithy catch phrase than anything with substance. Haven’t heard of any US oil companies starting up over there yet. Since you bring it up, please educate me. If we wanted oil, why take the whole country? All we need is the oil fields. And why bother having elections? Just install a puppet government. Better yet, don’t invade Iraq at all…take over Saudi Arabia…they have much larger proven oil reserves.
I would challenge anyone to tell that family that he died in vain and for nothing.
Aww…look at atg! He’s so cute as he puts on a pout and challenges “anyone” to tell state the obvious truth.
Since you asked for it:
He died in vain for nothing…just like the 1700 others who choked on the flowers and sweets that got thrown their way in this inept cakewalk we call “Iraq: The Deuce”
Where’s the WMD?
Where are the links to 9/11 and OBL?
And hey, now that I mention it, where the fuck IS that dang OBL?
Maybe OBL planted the IED that killed your friend…I mean, it’s a long walk from the NW frontier of Pakistan dragging a dialysis machine, but at least then your friend’s death would have some tangential relationship to defending this country, rather than just being another folded flag chucked in a drawer we call “sorry about that”
If someone, and their family, is willing to make the supreme sacrifice how do anonymous people sitting behind some keyboard have a right to criticize them?
Are you serious, atg?
That’s the way this country works: when people like him die in vain and for nothing in an illegal and badly-planned war, taxpayers (and former officers) like me are going call it like we see it, however we please.
Don’t worry too much about his daughter…she’ll figure it out the futility for herself in about 4 years when her school is overrun with recruiters desperate to fill slots in an Army pushed to the brink by all its all the awesome “progress” in Iraq.
If you really believe, “We have to stay the course until the job is done” you’ll be making sure that your son is the first to sign up.