Hi DIYMan,
Not to worry, I haven’t forgotten about getting you my measurements. Honestly, I have been taking some time off form heavy training, and focusing on my job. I definitely want to get you my measurements and so we can work together.
Thank you,
Christian W.
Hi Christian,
Great to hear from you. It would be awesome to get the saddle under a true pro testing.
Let’s see what we can achieve during the next winter while you still have nice summer weather to train hard. At the same time I will be sitting inside planning new saddle ideas and waiting for the snow to melt before the next riding season can start.
Best regards,
-diyman
For a custom-made / hand-made saddle, I would say that is very impressive for a 1st or 2nd effort.
Can you say more about how you designed it, and then how you made it ?
Thanks for your comments,
It has taken about a year for me to reach this point as I have been doing this on holidays.
I made the designed in 3D by computer and then I printed molds. Then the rest was made by hand.
Here is a picture of the tools I used.
Looks pretty good, this is why I wish I had a 3D printer and a 3D scanner, I wanna make my own shoes, and was thinking if I could create a two piece mold for the outside and use a bladder on the inside, I could reproduce a lot easier then having to make a new mold everytime since you need to destroy the plaster mold to get it out of the new shoe…unless there is another way besides making the show in two pieces or a big opening on the top part.
How many layers of carbon fiber did you use?
As far as bringing this to market, there are a couple of companies that make custom saddles (and use a similar process as is used for custom shoes). They are right at the $285 mark for a basic saddle (upgrade for carbon rails or type of shell). They also allow you to design your own saddle based on your measurements. If you could do it for that price or less you would have a decent market but at that price point I think you would be hard pressed to make a lot of money. Sending the package too and from, time spent uploading measurements, software for adjustability of saddle design, carbon fiber/ padding and top covering. They also offer a 2 year warranty. Not saying it cant be done but it might be very tough to compete
For a custom-made / hand-made saddle, I would say that is very impressive for a 1st or 2nd effort.
Can you say more about how you designed it, and then how you made it ?
Thanks for your comments,
It has taken about a year for me to reach this point as I have been doing this on holidays.
I made the designed in 3D by computer and then I printed molds. Then the rest was made by hand.
Here is a picture of the tools I used.
Looks pretty good, this is why I wish I had a 3D printer and a 3D scanner, I wanna make my own shoes, and was thinking if I could create a two piece mold for the outside and use a bladder on the inside, I could reproduce a lot easier then having to make a new mold everytime since you need to destroy the plaster mold to get it out of the new shoe…unless there is another way besides making the show in two pieces or a big opening on the top part.
How many layers of carbon fiber did you use?
As far as bringing this to market, there are a couple of companies that make custom saddles (and use a similar process as is used for custom shoes). They are right at the $285 mark for a basic saddle (upgrade for carbon rails or type of shell). They also allow you to design your own saddle based on your measurements. If you could do it for that price or less you would have a decent market but at that price point I think you would be hard pressed to make a lot of money. Sending the package too and from, time spent uploading measurements, software for adjustability of saddle design, carbon fiber/ padding and top covering. They also offer a 2 year warranty. Not saying it cant be done but it might be very tough to compete
Hi,
Interesting idea to make your own shoes. So you would like them to be carbon fiber also from the top, not just the bottom right?
If the whole shoe would be CF I guess you would need a really really perfect fit to avoid any blisters. That bladder sounds good. I have seen that they use bladders a lot in bike frame manufacturing. But perhaps you could also print the inner part of the mold but you would just make it from multiple parts. For example three parallel parts where you can take the center part out first and release space that way to be able to take also the peripheral parts out.
I quite much agree on your comments what it comes to commercialization. I have my daily job so at the moment I cannot be a full time saddle maker and as you said it would still be quite a challenge to make it profitable. What I have been thinking lately is that if I could get a fair amount of interest towards my saddle I could perhaps think a bit more professional and cost effective ways of manufacturing the saddle. This would mean decent metallic molds and industrial protocols to cure the carbon fiber. I definetly don’t want to risk my health by starting to play with toxic resins on a daily basis in unprofessional circumstances. But if one day I am in a situation that I would have a hundred pre orders waiting for the saddle to be manufactured, maybe at that point I could establish a professional manufacturing protocol which I could use to make these saddles couple of hundreds more with reasonable costs and within a reasonable timeframe.
For my current saddle I used around 12-14 layers of carbon fiber. One layer was around 0,33mm and I was aiming for 4mm total thickness. Around the titanium rails the thickness is much more just to be sure it can hold the rider’s weight.
-diyman
For a custom-made / hand-made saddle, I would say that is very impressive for a 1st or 2nd effort.
Can you say more about how you designed it, and then how you made it ?
Thanks for your comments,
It has taken about a year for me to reach this point as I have been doing this on holidays.
I made the designed in 3D by computer and then I printed molds. Then the rest was made by hand.
Here is a picture of the tools I used.
Looks pretty good, this is why I wish I had a 3D printer and a 3D scanner, I wanna make my own shoes, and was thinking if I could create a two piece mold for the outside and use a bladder on the inside, I could reproduce a lot easier then having to make a new mold everytime since you need to destroy the plaster mold to get it out of the new shoe…unless there is another way besides making the show in two pieces or a big opening on the top part.
How many layers of carbon fiber did you use?
As far as bringing this to market, there are a couple of companies that make custom saddles (and use a similar process as is used for custom shoes). They are right at the $285 mark for a basic saddle (upgrade for carbon rails or type of shell). They also allow you to design your own saddle based on your measurements. If you could do it for that price or less you would have a decent market but at that price point I think you would be hard pressed to make a lot of money. Sending the package too and from, time spent uploading measurements, software for adjustability of saddle design, carbon fiber/ padding and top covering. They also offer a 2 year warranty. Not saying it cant be done but it might be very tough to compete
Hi,
Interesting idea to make your own shoes. So you would like them to be carbon fiber also from the top, not just the bottom right?
If the whole shoe would be CF I guess you would need a really really perfect fit to avoid any blisters. That bladder sounds good. I have seen that they use bladders a lot in bike frame manufacturing. But perhaps you could also print the inner part of the mold but you would just make it from multiple parts. For example three parallel parts where you can take the center part out first and release space that way to be able to take also the peripheral parts out.
I quite much agree on your comments what it comes to commercialization. I have my daily job so at the moment I cannot be a full time saddle maker and as you said it would still be quite a challenge to make it profitable. What I have been thinking lately is that if I could get a fair amount of interest towards my saddle I could perhaps think a bit more professional and cost effective ways of manufacturing the saddle. This would mean decent metallic molds and industrial protocols to cure the carbon fiber. I definetly don’t want to risk my health by starting to play with toxic resins on a daily basis in unprofessional circumstances. But if one day I am in a situation that I would have a hundred pre orders waiting for the saddle to be manufactured, maybe at that point I could establish a professional manufacturing protocol which I could use to make these saddles couple of hundreds more with reasonable costs and within a reasonable timeframe.
For my current saddle I used around 12-14 layers of carbon fiber. One layer was around 0,33mm and I was aiming for 4mm total thickness. Around the titanium rails the thickness is much more just to be sure it can hold the rider’s weight.
-diyman
Did you only use weave or did you also go with UD?
For a custom-made / hand-made saddle, I would say that is very impressive for a 1st or 2nd effort.
Can you say more about how you designed it, and then how you made it ?
Thanks for your comments,
It has taken about a year for me to reach this point as I have been doing this on holidays.
I made the designed in 3D by computer and then I printed molds. Then the rest was made by hand.
Here is a picture of the tools I used.
Looks pretty good, this is why I wish I had a 3D printer and a 3D scanner, I wanna make my own shoes, and was thinking if I could create a two piece mold for the outside and use a bladder on the inside, I could reproduce a lot easier then having to make a new mold everytime since you need to destroy the plaster mold to get it out of the new shoe…unless there is another way besides making the show in two pieces or a big opening on the top part.
How many layers of carbon fiber did you use?
As far as bringing this to market, there are a couple of companies that make custom saddles (and use a similar process as is used for custom shoes). They are right at the $285 mark for a basic saddle (upgrade for carbon rails or type of shell). They also allow you to design your own saddle based on your measurements. If you could do it for that price or less you would have a decent market but at that price point I think you would be hard pressed to make a lot of money. Sending the package too and from, time spent uploading measurements, software for adjustability of saddle design, carbon fiber/ padding and top covering. They also offer a 2 year warranty. Not saying it cant be done but it might be very tough to compete
Hi,
Interesting idea to make your own shoes. So you would like them to be carbon fiber also from the top, not just the bottom right?
If the whole shoe would be CF I guess you would need a really really perfect fit to avoid any blisters. That bladder sounds good. I have seen that they use bladders a lot in bike frame manufacturing. But perhaps you could also print the inner part of the mold but you would just make it from multiple parts. For example three parallel parts where you can take the center part out first and release space that way to be able to take also the peripheral parts out.
I quite much agree on your comments what it comes to commercialization. I have my daily job so at the moment I cannot be a full time saddle maker and as you said it would still be quite a challenge to make it profitable. What I have been thinking lately is that if I could get a fair amount of interest towards my saddle I could perhaps think a bit more professional and cost effective ways of manufacturing the saddle. This would mean decent metallic molds and industrial protocols to cure the carbon fiber. I definetly don’t want to risk my health by starting to play with toxic resins on a daily basis in unprofessional circumstances. But if one day I am in a situation that I would have a hundred pre orders waiting for the saddle to be manufactured, maybe at that point I could establish a professional manufacturing protocol which I could use to make these saddles couple of hundreds more with reasonable costs and within a reasonable timeframe.
For my current saddle I used around 12-14 layers of carbon fiber. One layer was around 0,33mm and I was aiming for 4mm total thickness. Around the titanium rails the thickness is much more just to be sure it can hold the rider’s weight.
-diyman
Did you only use weave or did you also go with UD?
I used weave but in narrower parts of the mold especially around the rails it basically became unidirectional automatically because I had to cut so narrow sheets of the roll so the crossing fibers were more or less removed at the same time and only the long unidirectional fibers were left.
If you used UD and some core materials you could get a lot more strength with less carbon fiber but it would take a lof of experimentation and I would suggest a mold of where you wanted to sit leaving the under side open for the vacuum bag.
Also, idk if you did a regular wet layup or infused it (I have yet to experiment with it), but thats something different.
Another suggestion might be to design it so the rails could be moved? May or may not be worth considering.
I checked out your instagram and your saddle looks super interesting! When you start taking orders, I’ll be on the list!! But really, how could I go about getting one? really cool!
I checked out your instagram and your saddle looks super interesting! When you start taking orders, I’ll be on the list!! But really, how could I go about getting one? really cool!
Hi,
thank you for the support 
I have got some interest towards the saddle lately and I have also been asked that could I provide a demo saddle. At the moment I have that one and only carbon fiber seat which has been the topic of this thread. Then I have also one 3D printed version which I just tested yesterday. I made an Instagram post of that saddle as well so you can see the pictures there (the green/black saddle).
For me I would say that this latest version felt actually even slightly better than the carbon fiber one. The shape is basically the same, but the main difference is the padding. I found a new 5mm thick padding material which I glued on top of the seat. After the first 36km test ride on rainy conditions everything seemed OK. The padding is still tightly on its place and I didn’t notice any wear, but of course more testing is needed to see how it really survives. The padding I used on my carbon fiber saddle was a bit thinner and also gets compressed a bit easier. This new padding feels more stiffer. It is a bit hard to describe, but if we think a scale where sponge (very elastic but not stiff) is in the other end and rubber (also elastic but much stiffer) is in the other end, the new padding is more towards the rubber and the padding on the carbon fiber seat is a bit closer to the sponge.
So as you can see above I still have some R&D issues going on But after receiving some encouraging contacts recently I am getting more and more exited about this project.
If you would really want to be an early bird and you would like to get a similar saddle as that green/black one seen on Instagram, I think I would be able to get it for you 3D printed by an industry grade 3D printer. At least weight shouldn’t be a problem. The one that I have printed with my own printer weights around 115g.
The carbon fiber version is a bit more challenging to manufacture and getting that for you would definetly take more time, but I have brainstorming going on with that as well.
Let me hear what you think,
-diyman
Hello,
maybe it is time to introduce myself so you know who is behind the diyman nickname.
My name is Erik Huotari and I come from Espoo Finland. I have been studying medical technology in my past and I also currently work with medical devices concerning orthopedic surgeries.
So anatomy and bones are in my mind more or less all the time I guess that background has a major part in the history of my saddle design. It was obvious to me to look at pelvic anatomy right in the beginning when I started to figure out how that saddle should look like. That’s how the idea of support for ramus bones evolved.
As I wrote in my previous posts I have named the saddle now as Ramus. As a matter of fact two Ramus prototypes are in the USA at the moment. After an incredible coincidence those two saddles were actually picked up by a triathlete right here from Finland. Maybe we will hear some testing comments soon here at Slowtwitch as well.
I have discussed about my saddle project also with my employer and got a green light to work with the saddle during my spare time. So I decided to establish a company and the next step is to open up a website for Ramus. I have also had discussions with my local companies about manufacturing options. It looks promising that these manufacturing issues could be solved during this winter. It seems that industrial 3D printing technology could do the job. I will order first prints as soon as I get my company’s registration finished. Then it will be a time for extreme testing.
I have also done some fine tuning to my design lately. Here is a rendered picture of the latest edition with a Ramus logo on the bottles as well
So there will be a bottle rack option too.
Best regards,
Erik
Hello,
maybe it is time to introduce myself so you know who is behind the diyman nickname.
My name is Erik Huotari and I come from Espoo Finland. I have been studying medical technology in my past and I also currently work with medical devices concerning orthopedic surgeries.
So anatomy and bones are in my mind more or less all the time I guess that background has a major part in the history of my saddle design. It was obvious to me to look at pelvic anatomy right in the beginning when I started to figure out how that saddle should look like. That’s how the idea of support for ramus bones evolved.
As I wrote in my previous posts I have named the saddle now as Ramus. As a matter of fact two Ramus prototypes are in the USA at the moment. After an incredible coincidence those two saddles were actually picked up by a triathlete right here from Finland. Maybe we will hear some testing comments soon here at Slowtwitch as well.
I have discussed about my saddle project also with my employer and got a green light to work with the saddle during my spare time. So I decided to establish a company and the next step is to open up a website for Ramus. I have also had discussions with my local companies about manufacturing options. It looks promising that these manufacturing issues could be solved during this winter. It seems that industrial 3D printing technology could do the job. I will order first prints as soon as I get my company’s registration finished. Then it will be a time for extreme testing.
I have also done some fine tuning to my design lately. Here is a rendered picture of the latest edition with a Ramus logo on the bottles as well
So there will be a bottle rack option too.
Best regards,
Erik
Once again I have some troubles uploading the pictures.
Let’s see if it works now.
Hi Erik,
I’d love to try one of your prototypes. I’ve tried many (8+) saddles and so far I haven’t found anything that hasn’t caused some degree of numbness especially as my position evolved as longer, lower and with ability to put out more power.
I’m currently on a Shimano Pro Trifuel and it’s tolerable but not ideal. I’ve tried Cobb 55, Hilo RXL, ISM PN3, Dash Stage, Cobb Max, Fabric.
Out of these the Hilo RXL was the one I’ve used for longer but just can’t get comfortable on it anymore in my position. I’ve been on the Shimano Pro since January or so.
I like to think I’m pretty knowledgeable with bike fitting. The flaw with many of these saddles is that the relief channel is often placed too far back. You’re supposed to sit on the front supporting your weight on the ramus bones but the two prongs at the tip often are too close together and end up compressing the soft tissue in between.
Nice work, I would just suggest putting your IG link in your signature so more people could view it.
Cheers,
Maurice
Nice work, I would just suggest putting your IG link in your signature so more people could view it.
Cheers,
Maurice
Hi Maurice,
Thank you for a very good tip. It is nice that the link appears now to all of my previous posts as well.
-Erik
Hi Erik,
I’d love to try one of your prototypes. I’ve tried many (8+) saddles and so far I haven’t found anything that hasn’t caused some degree of numbness especially as my position evolved as longer, lower and with ability to put out more power.
I’m currently on a Shimano Pro Trifuel and it’s tolerable but not ideal. I’ve tried Cobb 55, Hilo RXL, ISM PN3, Dash Stage, Cobb Max, Fabric.
Out of these the Hilo RXL was the one I’ve used for longer but just can’t get comfortable on it anymore in my position. I’ve been on the Shimano Pro since January or so.
I like to think I’m pretty knowledgeable with bike fitting. The flaw with many of these saddles is that the relief channel is often placed too far back. You’re supposed to sit on the front supporting your weight on the ramus bones but the two prongs at the tip often are too close together and end up compressing the soft tissue in between.
Hi,
I think I know what you mean. I also tried at first to use a saddle with a relief channel with my triathlon bike and ended up getting that compression.
Just send me a private message and we can discuss further how you could get a protoype for testing. I have just opened up a Whatsapp group for those who are willing to try the protos.
Cheers,
Erik
Hi!
Here comes a little update of the RAMUS project.
First of all the world’s first RAMUS saddle has been officially sold last week and it’s on its way to Texas for a 36 time Ironman finisher and Team Zoot captain Christian Wendenburg.
I hope the saddle kit will be perfect for you!
I have been working hard during the winter to make RAMUS available for everybody. I have found good partners for materials and the saddle can be manufactured with an industrial 3D printer which gives the saddle very good mechanical strength.
During the winter I have developed four different versions (two widths with a bit more flat edges and two widths with curved edges) of the saddle and also a special fine tuning feature which is changeable seat pads.
So when you buy a RAMUS saddle you actually buy a modular system which you can fine tune with these changeable seat pads if needed.
One thing that I just recently noticed from another Slowtwitch forum post is the stickiness of the saddle surface. I learned that even the pros are using special grip aids to avoid sliding on the saddle.
This is one issue which could be easily adjusted with these changeable pads not to mention softness preferences. Also possible pelvic bone asymmetry issues could be compensated with different height seat pads for each side of the saddle.
I am at the moment finishing final details to bring these saddles to market and I will be sending them out for reviews.
The “stock” version will have specially selected grippy EVA material seat pads. The material is dermatologically tested and it won’t suck water.
You will be able to choose the pads for your saddle from two stiffness’s (firm or softer). That softer padding material is the last thing that I am still waiting for, but I should get it from the factory by the end of this month. I have a very good source for the padding materials now. If somebody wishes for example even softer padding I could be able to get multiple variations of the padding material as a custom made project.
You can take a look at more details how the RAMUS story has evolved from the Instagram page.
Best regards,
Erik
Hello again,
project RAMUS goes forward. You can now order the saddle from https://www.ramusseat.com. I just got payment systems up and running so Visa and Mastercard should work.
I’m eagerly waiting for comments from UK as I have sent one saddle for review to a triathlon magazine, hopefully there will come an article online soon.
I have also made a RAMUS themed cycling jersey available to the RAMUS site. If you are planning to buy a new jersey, check this out: https://www.ramusseat.com/showroom/ramus-jersey
I am about to make the jersey order in the beginning of May so place your order before that if you want to join the order and give some boost for my saddle project.
Cheers,
Erik
Awesome! Few questions:
What’s the base of the saddle made from? The original looks like it’s carbon, but the latest samples look like they are a plastic polymer.
How durable is the foam? Does it get slippery when wet?
The website says that a leather top is available. How much extra is that? Are the pads still interchangeable with the leather?
Which saddle best matches the prototypes, flat or curved?
Do you have the saddle dimensions? Length, nose width, rail length, weight, etc?
Hi gmh39 and thank you for your questions!
Here come my answers:
What’s the base of the saddle made from? The original looks like it’s carbon, but the latest samples look like they are a plastic polymer.
Yes the original was made from carbon fiber and I had also 3D printed prototypes made by a hobby level 3D printer in the beginning.
The current frame is 3D printed nylon material. It is printed with an industrial HP 3D printer utilizing multijet fusion technology. You can check out videos of the printing process from my Instagram page. This technology enables to make very durable yet lightweight products so I have deciced to stay away from carbon fiber so far. 3D printing technology also keeps the door open for design changes if necessary. I found a very nice site where you can see many tests made to this material: https://forerunner3d.com/hp-mjf-part-wear-mjf-part-strength/ It is really strong stuff but it still has flexibility in it so it won’t brake by cracking apart.
How durable is the foam? Does it get slippery when wet?
The current foam that I am using is much more durable than a regular EVA foam that I experimented first. The material that I am using now comes from Germany from a company which manufactures materials for custom made shoe insoles and prostheses paddings. The most durable version is the firm padding version as it has the highest rubber content and it is also heavier because of the higher rubber content. The softer version is of course not as durable as the firm but still that soft padding too is stiffer material compared to regular EVA. It is a bit hard to describe how durable it is by words. Maybe I could do some video of these seat pads to give you better idea of their durability. I think the feeling an properties of this material are quite close to the material that is used for example in go cart steering wheels.
About getting slippery. I actually did a test I went to shower with my cycling shorts and then jumped on my bike on the trainer. No they don’t get slippery, I would say that there might have been even more grip when wet. The fabric of the cycling shorts kept its contact with the saddle very well. The foam material is dermatologically tested and has a closed cell structure. The closed cell structure prevents the foam material from sucking water, so you can make the surface dry very easy just by wiping it.
The seat pads are still interchangeable if you take the leather upholstering. There is no problem to change from leather version pads to uncovered ones so you can use whatever pads you like whenever you like.
Those are my measurements and feelings, but then if you have for example a 100mm sit bone width, RAMUS 115 and 120 would be my suggestions in that case.
Best regards,
Erik
Thanks Erik, I appreciate the thorough reply!
Curious, does anyone use this saddle on with a more standard road position (as oppsed to a tri/TT position)?