I need some advice. I don’t currently have a set of race wheels and have been looking to purchase some zipps, blackwells or hed. I have narrowed it down to no disc but deep dish so it is more versitile with wind ect. I am curious how much gain can one expect from a good set of wheels. I had a huge gain with rotor cranks can I expect the same increase with wheels? Also how many of you use these wheels all the time?Can you only use them for races or are the strong enough for all year use? what type or sizes do you recommend. Please chime in with advice.
I race on Zipp tubular 404’s for roadracing/crits and draft-legal triathlons. I have a Zipp disc that I put on for TT’s and non-drafting triathlon. I would recommend Zipp because I have never had a problem with the wheels, they have never gone out of ture, and they have very well-manufactured hubs. The 404’s will make you faster. They are more aerodynamic than almost any wheel that comes standard on any bike right off the floor. I would hesitate to quantify how much faster they will make you, because there are many variables that effect your times, and quantifying time savings can almost only lead to dissappointment in my experience. Just be confident that you will have gone faster using them than you would have if they weren’t on your bike.
Zipp wheels have been described by many as being ‘bomb-proof.’ Based on this, and from my own experience, they are durable enough to use all of the time. I don’t for one big reason, being that I use tubulars for my race wheels, and don’t want to take the time and $$ to replace tubular tires from flats while training. I guess another reason would be akin to using a dragsuit while swimming and taking it off for the race. You really will have the sensation of rolling faster when using the wheels, and for me, because I always use them exclusively while racing, this sort of puts me in the ‘racing’ frame of mind.
I have a pair of Zipp 404’s. Amazing wheels that definitely improve performance and speed. They also make the ride more comfortable. As far as using them all the time, I don’t. I use them for light training and racing. I did phone the Zipp factory once and spoke with a customer rep about using the wheels full time. He said that it would be fine, the wheels are definitely tough enough. I guess the thought of wrecking a expensive set of wheels on a training ride is not appealing. Plus, like anything, the more you use it the more you wear it out. So I do save them for racing.
I also have a Hed Disc that I use for flatter courses (with the Zipp on the front). Any race with hills though I don’t use the disc. If you can only buy one set of wheels and not a Disc as well, I would go with the Zipp’s.
Thanks for the info. I was thinking of a 808 rear and a 404 front(clincher). If they do come out of true can they be trued back like a standard wheel? What kind of time increase did you personally see. I have been told that you can expect a 1-2min increase over 20 miles. Does that sound even close? I just want to make sure it is worth the investment. I have a 1/2 and a full ironman this year on my schedule and I would love to see the benifits on the bike.
I realize everyone loves Zipps but what about Blackwellls 100mm??
They can’t really come out of ‘true’ in the normal sense because they are carbon… They are either broken or not. It would be more accurate to call it re-tensioning the spokes as I understand it, because if for some reason the rim was out of round, too much tension would need to be used to pull it back into shape. That said, most people, myself included, would tell you it really isn’t an issue. Maybe someone else could offer their own insight or experience.
I think studies done have concluded that about 1-2 min. @ 20+mph is a fair expectation. My experience has been if I do a race without my race wheels and I don’t meet my time objective, I don’t say, ‘I wish I had my race wheels and I’d have beat so and so,’ or, ‘Well, I went 59:30 for 40k but it would’ve been 57:30 if I had my race wheels.’ Those aren’t really fair statements in my opinion. Each performance you have is what it is, and if you have the wheels, they’ll make you faster. How much depends on a lot of other variables.
I can’t comment on the Blackwell wheels cause I’ve never used them.
Thanks for the info. I was thinking of a 808 rear and a 404 front(clincher
You know, you pay the same for the clinchers as the Zipp Tubulars…its like getting an extra pound on your wheels for free - such a deal.
" They can’t really come out of ‘true’ in the normal sense because they are carbon… They are either broken or not."
A carbon wheel can come out of true. There is no “other sense” of being out of true. The rims can not be infinitely rigid; if the spoke tension is uneven, the wheel will wobble and be out of true just like an aluminum-rimmed wheel.
If a carbon rim is wobbling it is caused by tiny cracks in the laminate, isn’t it? I wouldn’t want to ride on a wheel with tiny cracks in the glue that is holding it together.
I don’t know, I could be wrong. But none of the carbon wheels I have owned have ever needed truing so I don’t have firsthand experience.
If a carbon rim is wobbling it is caused by tiny cracks in the laminate, isn’t it? I would want to ride on a wheel with tiny cracks in the glue that is holding it together.
I don’t know, I could be wrong. But none of the carbon wheels I have owned have ever needed truing so I don’t have firsthand experience.
“wobbling”? What do you mean? You mean a flat spot?
I don’t mean anything, I have never had a carbon wheel come out of true, whether that be laterally or a flat spot. I was speaking hypothetically, I guess.
No, in most cases, it is simply out of true due to spoke tension variances. I suppose there could also be cracks in the rim, but that is a different issue. If a rim is cracked bad enough, i.e. a nipple is pulling through the rim, that will make the wheel out of true simply because the tension on that spoke is much lower (because it pulled out of the rim). You’re still dealing with the basic wheel system. Spokes can loosen or stretch over time; when they do, the rim is no longer held perfectly straight. All you need to do is true it up like normal.
I guess my point would pertain more to a carbon rim than a wheel as a whole. If you were to take out all of the spokes out of a carbon rim, and the rim was out of alignment, wouldn’t that mean that there was some structural problem with the carbon?
I see what you mean. I imagine that the rim still isn’t 100% perfect. Same as aluminum rims. They’re pretty round, but never going to be perfect. If the rim was really bad (as in laterally and/or radially out of true), then yes, there is probably something wrong with the construction. Hopefully that would be something that is caught before it is built into a complete wheel.