I am looking to buy a new wheelset, what is everyone riding here? I have a new P3 and want to upgrade it. Any suggestions or good buys out there?
Somewhat depends on the types of races you are doing.
HED 3/ZIPP 404 front, HED/ZIPP/Renn disc rear is a very fast and popular combo right now.
The discs are getting crazy light so the weight isn’t as big an issue unless you are just doing uphill TTs.
Go as aero (read deep) in the front as you feel comfortable with your bike handling.
How much money do you want to spend?
The best combo is a disc rear/tri spoke front. The cheap way to do this is a CH Aero cover and a used Specialized tri spoke. There are also much more expensive ways to get the same aerodynamics.
The P3 is made to be ridden fast on a disc =). That means if you want FASTEST, then the 909 setup is the best I have seen as far working with the P#. Other setups may be faster on other bikes, but with the rear wheel cut out of the P3, the 909 is the optimal setup.
"if you want FASTEST, then the 909 "
Why do you feel that the Zipp 909 disc would be faster than any other disc?
Why would the 404 front (of the 909 wheelset) be faster than a HED 3 or even a Mavic IO?
because zipp spends more advertising dollars…DUH!!!
lol
Is the Zipp disk the best, I was also looking at a Hed combo as well
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The 404 and the H3 are pretty much the same aero-wise according to John Cobb. I think the Mavic was a little better.
Kraig Willet has tested a CH Aero disc cover against a Zipp disc. It’s a $7.95 pay site but well worth the info if contemplating purchasing a disc.
from john cobb’s site: in his own words:
I have preached about H3’s being the fastest front wheel for a long time but as we continue to learn more about wheels and rider habits it turns out that for most TT races there might be a better choice. The original Hed CX, with the curved sisdes was faster than the H3, they don’t sell that anymore. Now the Zipp 404/ Blackwell 58 are about the only deep wheels available with the curved side shape and it will overall be a better choice front wheel. The curved sidewall shape pulls the side air down through the middle of the spokes and builds a better nose shape for the air that exits on the back side. The curved sides also help control air votices that pull away from a non curved rim side which causes some of the steering instability that riders experience.Zipp and Hed both share the patent on the curved sidewall rim shape and that is why other manufacturers can’t use the better shape. Use the Zipp 404 or Blackwell 58 for the front wheel.
The ZIPP is somewhat considered the ‘gold standard’ right now. The differences between discs are small. The newest ZIPPs have dimples. The ZIPP, Renn, Corima, and others are all ‘flat’ discs, the HED is lenticular. Of course everyone claims theirs is the fastest. When looking at value, the ZIPP is very spendy, the HED less so, the Renn is considered the best value at the moment, and CH covers are bargin basement and arguably nearly as fast as a ‘real’ disc.
I run an older HED disc with a HED Jet front, and don’t see any compelling reason to ‘upgrade’ to anything newer.
In my opinion, the best all around race wheels are a set of 909’s. But that opinion may be met with resistance from others.
Bottom line is, you can’t really go wrong with a good race wheel such as…RENN disc, Corima, Bontranger, HED…in fact, all of these wheels are very nice, but the craftsmanship ZIPP wheels to me clearly stands out and sets these wheels apart from other wheels.
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“Hed CX, with the curved sisdes was faster than the H3,”
Here’s an interesting study that rates the Hed CX and the Campy Shamal similiar except that the Shamal was less affected by cross wind. I just dunno - who are ya supposed to believe?
Everytime I take my HED disc on a road trip I get a new ding, I am not sure why he keeps the soft material on his discs. My Zipp and HED 3 disc don’t share that problem, so my HED std. disc never leaves the island anymore. Haven’t tried Renn, but for durability the HED std is not a good value. G
maybe i read it wrong but it sounded like the two studies referenced along w/cobb all concluded that certain deep section rims hed, campy & zipp all performed better than 3-spoke fronts? i don’t know if cobb tested the campy wheel and it doesn’t sound like the tests you referenced tested the zipps therefore making comparisons btw all 3 simply from the 3 experiments not practical, but it seems the “general” conclusions were along the same lines from what i can tell…
I am glad a lot of people get heated over race wheels. If you do not like the 909’s cool, do not buy them. But last year the only people who ever passed me on a bike rode a P3 and guess what, 909’s. There was 1 exception and that was a P3 running the Cane Creek Aros.
The 909’s are a better disc than the others simply because they weigh a lot less. Yes I said a lot less. A Renn Disc is good, Hed disc is good, on and on. Pick up any other rear wheel, then pick up a 909 rear. No contest. All the yapping about using CH covers, that is lame. To take a wheel and put more weight on it?? The 909 can be used in any environment and one will not consider the disk too heavy for a certain course.
All of this is my personal opinion without true data to back it up. I just know what types of bikes would pass me, P3’s and what they were running.
What’s the weight savings of the 909 disc vs. the Renn 575? I don’t think it’s much.
corima, hed, zipp, renn, campy. A disc is a disc is a disc. Put any of the above on your bike ride 10 mile TT’s and your going to be w/in a disc wheel of yourself.
Price being no object a Mavic IO in the front and a Zipp disk in the rear.
Unbelievably fast in the real world. -What Ulrich used.