When you move a seat all the way forward will you typically need to adjust seat height up/down or is your seat height the same no matter how far forward the seat gets moved? If it does typically need to be moved, is it typically moved up or down?
Keep it the same.
There was a school of thought that said raise as you go forward in the earlier days of tri bike fitting, but it doesn’t make sense IMO. When you raise your seat you put more stress on your hamstrings and one of the reasons triathletes rode steeper was to take stress off their hamstrings. So by raising when going forward it defeated the purpose. Kind of like the dog chasing it’s tail.
Yes, but…when you move forward and consequently raise your seat, you are keeping the same seat height, so no more hamstring or other stress. Your seat height is your seat height is the line from the center of the BB to middle of the top of saddle. When you go forward without going up, you just lowered your seat. So noone is saying if your seat height is say 76cm that you should go forwards and move your seat up to 77cm, what is being said is when you move your seat forward also move it up to preserve your proper(hopefully) seat height of 76cm.
Dave Luscan
www.endorphinfitness.com
Hmmmm… Interesting that you brought up hamstring stress. I had a fitting recently where the fitter moved me forward and raised the seat from 73 to 75. I’ve had half a dozen rides since the fitting and something feels off. I was thinking that it had more to do with my cleat positioning. I was set up a bit crooked on my other bike to compensate for a muscle imbalance. This fitter didn’t address that issue at all. On my rides since the new fitting I have had some knee pain on the top and inside of mh knee cap which some suggested meant that my seat is too low which I doubt. But my running off the bike didn’t quite feel as fresh and I tweaked my hamstring in a run last week and have had to take some time off. You think the seat might be contributing to that or is it likely the cleat positioning?
I’d try lowering your seat and see how it feels. Never be afraid to experiment to see what feels best.
Well the theory always was that for every cm you go forward increase the height by 1/2 cm. Chris Kautz at the cycling science meeting a few years ago mentioned that instead of going forward as much just lower the saddle a bit instead to relieve the hamstrings, albiet starting in a forwardish position. I found for me at least, that it worked much better.
I think what I’m really doing here is mostly agreeing with you. In that there is no need to always go forward just to be forward. But if you do go forward and you had your seat at a proper height prior to that move, you should CONSIDER that rule of thumb you mentioned as a starting point for height adjustments. But like you said, most importantly here is TRY THINGS AND SEE HOW THEY FEEL. Trust your body as it is intuitively intelligent regarding these matters. I ride +3cm saddle tip/bottom bracket and I tip it and without a doubt make my best power and run my best from there. If I relied on my own personal n=1 as an absolute, I would have never believed the individual I fit yesterday who ended up 2cm behind the BB and said they felt most powerful there. If you tell me you are powerful, and you are reasonably positioned within certain ranges, I beleive you.
Dave Luscan
www.endorphinfitness.com
There is also the problem of determining “proper” seat height. If you use the classical .883 and 1.09 formulas you’ll likely get two different answers. The difference is about 1 cm for my inseam length. And these formulas don’t consider crank lenght, foot size, etc. In theory the ganiometer method should be very good, but in practice it’s very easy to make an error since you’re eye balling anatomical landmarks at a close distance.
Depending on which expert you wish to believe the recommneded knee bend at 6 o’clock can be anything from 25-35 degrees which in itself would allow quite of variation in the actual seat height. It’s just always been my gut feeling that you’re probably better off to err in favor of being slightly low than high.
I tried a few different heights. I ended up lowering the saddle by about 0.5 cm (or maybe it was mm - whatever the little spacer is). It still feels weird. I’m coming to the conclusion that it is indeed my cleat placement that is the problem. John Cobb had me positioned slightly off center to compensate for my imbalance. When I ride with everything even it feels like I’m falling off the right side of the bike a bit (best way I can describe it). Almost like one leg is longer than the other though I know that isn’t the case. He had my seat nose turned slightly left of center and the aerobars set so that the left bar was closer to the stem than the right. I think I will try that set up on the new bike even though the fitter who did this bike’s fit thought that was silly. Only problem is I’m not sure how to position the cleats. I think John had one a bit more forward than the other one. I haven’t been able to reach him about it. What is your guess on how the cleats should be positioned?
If you have a video camera at home set it up and take a quick clip of your seat height and pedaling. It’s amazing how much you can quickly see on the camera!
You can look at the bottom of your pedal stroke (i.e. the point just before 6:00 o’clock) as well as whether or not your hips are rocking or moving at the top, this should help you dial in the perfect height and it doesn’t take much effort.
Feel is always perceived differently than what you see on the camera, so start out with what you think is your seat height and than go up and down from their to see how it affects your pedaling…
Could very well be the cleats. Usually if one is more forward than another it’s often an attempt to help correct leg length imbalances from what I understand about it. Get in touch with John. He’s the master on this.