After a recent flat tire experience, where I had much more trouble than anticipated getting the tire off, I am wondering:
On your race wheels,
How much glue do you use when putting your tires on, knowing that you might have to get them off mid race? Are you leaving any spot unglued?
If you don’t leave a spot unglued, do you pretty much immediately get out a razor blade and cut? If yes, how exactly do you cut the tire? Do you keep cutting until you’ve managed to cut right through the glued bottom portion of the tire (seems hard to do!)? I wasn’t able to get my tire off until I did this, but seemed to take a while to cut through the hard base tape due to the dried glue in it.
I’ve been riding tubies for a little over 20 years. I’ve never, ever had to cut one off tho. In a race wheel, I’d use a metric shit ton of sealant, I’ve used orange seal on my tubeless & tubie wheels and never had a flat. As far as glue goes, I do a couple thin coats on the wheel & tire all the way around and pre-coat the spare. I’ve used the tape before but that can be extra hard to take off, works almost too good.
Nothing beats the ride of tubies, hope you find a good solution.
Agree with KSG above…I don’t do tri’s anymore but still ride tubes for road racing (clinchers for training) and CX. There are a bunch of ways you can go about your flat protection: Use sealant regardless of what you do. Most, if not all tubular tires use removable valve cores so you can get it in. I think all the data shows that the sealant does not slow you down. When I would do tri’s I would carry a spare that I could roll up small and would pre glue. I would carry a razor blade for my A races where I didn’t mind sacrificing a tire. For non-A races I would carry Pitstop and hope I didn’t flat. Never had a flat during a tri so I can’t be too much help with how my plan works:) Tufo makes some track tubulars that roll up small, but the RR and puncture protection sucks so use something else for your real tires…
Some people recommend leaving a bit of the tire unglued, I think for a tri that would ‘probably’ be fine as you generally don’t corner hard. I would not do that for a road race though.
As far as how to cut…never had to do it as per my prior post, but I did take a tire I was going to trash off that way at home one time. I just took the blade and cut perpendicular down to the rim. Took 3 swipes to get all the way through the base layer, but then I was able to just rip the tire off. I’d guess I could get it off in 30sec if doing it fast in a race. they are easy to mount and fill with CO2 so you could have a very fast change if you are willing to sacrifice the tire. I was using an Al rim so I could be aggressive, might take some care with carbon.
Thanks all. I’ll look into the sealant suggestions, I’ve never used it.
I’m comfortable with getting a new tire on, etc. And I plan to carry one of the small tufo tubulars as a spare next season.
Again, really just wondering if anyone had a different strategy as far as how much glue they use on the race wheels, and if they leave a section unglued to help get it off.
And with regards to the razor blade, I dunno, maybe the old blade I used was too dull. I was using one of those long flat xacto type of blades, and not new, like one of these: http://www.creativepro.com/files/story_images/021204_fg12.jpg
With regards to leaving a small section unglued - I’m not the least bit worried about a tubie rolling off, but with all the talk of rolling resistance in different tires, clinchers vs tubies, etc, I’m wondering if having that unglued patch would make a big difference in that regard, and whether or not it would create some sort of odd feel or noise when riding, each time the wheel rotates over the unglued portion…
i train on tubulars and they generally come right off without a fight. I think where I have trouble is when I put the tires on when the glue is still pretty wet. If you are concerned carry a tire lever to help you get the thing started. With sealant, you can often add more air and continue riding, or if it’s fairly close to the end roll it in on the rim.
I’ve been using 2 layers on the rim (let one dry a few minutes before re-applying), using a square of Saran or Cling Wrap to spread on the rim. FYI, I use a Zipp 404 front & Corima 4-spoke rear typically, depending on course & conditions…but 90% of the time this is the combo. Then 1 thin layer on the back cotton of the tire. While doing this, I make sure to leave a 4 inch section opposite of the valve stems with absolutely nothing on it. This is the “go to place” where if I flat, I’ll be starting to work the tire off the rim. The air pressure of a 115 to 120 psi is enough with the glue to keep the tire on the rim even at higher speeds of 45+ mph. Never had a tire roll before (nor had to cut one off). My weight is 145-150 lbs so that is what I do for mounting tires.
As some mentioned, tape can be a PITA. I’ve found Vittoria glue is not too good to use as it hardens rock solid. I like to use something that remains a little tacky like Conti Carbon rim cement, in case I need to put on a spare during the race. That said, I’ve completely bailed on spares now & just carry a can of Mariposa Tire Sealant taped to my frame & a spare CO2 to top it off (for an Ironman for example). Shorter races, typically just the can. Inspecting your tubulars regularly after & before each race to ensure no cuts or cracking have developed is a key to keeping flats to a minimum.
the only issue with the “leave a spot unglued” thing is you don’t have that glue seal keeping the water out. After you race that thing in the rain, deflate the tire and press gently on the side and make sure it’s still on there. Water and dirt will work into that spot and the tire can start working loose. It’s more of an issue with the low pressures in cyclocross, but keep an eye on your glue joint after every race, especially in heavy rain
Thx, good point, will watch for that if I go this route.
Cheers
just remember to deflate it first
personally, I would just do a normal glue job without feeling the need to glue the crap out of the tires, you are not going to be doing fast turns on a bumpy city street in a criterium. I have rolled my share of tires and it’s always from hitting a bump hard in the apex or doing some erratic turn in an effort to avoid a crash. A lot of times, the tire rolls because we crash, but we assume the order is reversed.
Thx, good point, will watch for that if I go this route.
Cheers
just remember to deflate it first
personally, I would just do a normal glue job without feeling the need to glue the crap out of the tires, you are not going to be doing fast turns on a bumpy city street in a criterium. I have rolled my share of tires and it’s always from hitting a bump hard in the apex or doing some erratic turn in an effort to avoid a crash. A lot of times, the tire rolls because we crash, but we assume the order is reversed.
I’ve personally never rolled one. I -have- seen what you described. In fairness, I’m not sure I really consider that to be a ‘rolled’ tire…It more seems to be a case of a bike being thrown into a sideways slide, and the tire gets ‘ripped’ off. The couple of times I’ve seen this happen, it looked like the rider was going down anyway. Good example of that happening in the pro’s was when Beloki’s bike went sideways at the TDF and his tire ripped off - that was when Armstrong rode his bike across the field…
I’ve also had what I thought were pretty light glue jobs stick pretty damn hard. Someone mentioned above about how maybe the issue was putting the tubular on while the glue is still wet. I do this. I don’t subscribe to the multiple coatings / several days theories. At least not for road wheels (as opposed to cyclocross). I don’t put any glue on the tire. I put roughly 3/4 of a tube onto the rim, spread it around, then pull on a new partially inflated tire, center it, pump it to pressure, leave it dry overnight. Seems to always work fine since I have such a hard time getting the damn tires off!
Thx, good point, will watch for that if I go this route.
Cheers
just remember to deflate it first
personally, I would just do a normal glue job without feeling the need to glue the crap out of the tires, you are not going to be doing fast turns on a bumpy city street in a criterium. I have rolled my share of tires and it’s always from hitting a bump hard in the apex or doing some erratic turn in an effort to avoid a crash. A lot of times, the tire rolls because we crash, but we assume the order is reversed.
I absolutely agree with your last sentence, but if you have “rolled share of tires”, you are gluing them wrong. A rolled tire should be a vary rare exception.
I have raced and ridden tubs for over 20 years and have never rolled one…ever. Nor have any of the dozens of people for whom I have glued tired.
In regards to using sealant in the tires, doesn’t this dry out over time? How fast will it dry out and if it is dries fast do you just replace your tires? I use tubulars only on my race wheels and do not go thru a set of tubulars in one year because of this. I carry Pitstop but have not pre-sealed them. Considering doing so but do not want to replace great condition tires all of the time because of dried sealant. I see this as getting expensive.
Thats what I had been doing, thinking the pitstop would save me in a race. Glad I punctured in training and learned that Pitstop is far from reliable. And after doing more googling, it appears pitstop really isn’t all that reliable (seems 50/50).
If I do go the tubular route again next year, I think I will:
pre-treat with some stans or similar.
possibly leave a couple inches of tire unglued
carry a can of maripos espresso (instead of pitstop)
carry one of the small/light tufo elite tubies as a spare and a couple C02 cartridges
That is for 70.3 or IM races. For Olympics or Sprints, I’ll not bother with the spare tire, but still carry the espresso, just to get me home.
Oh - with regards to the sealant drying out - I do 7 - 10 races per year. So my tires aren’t really worn out, however, I still treat myself to new tires at the beginning of each season, and might even put a new one on the rear wheel before a big event like Ironman if it is towards the end of the season.
I -thought- I had read on here at some point that even with a high quality tire, when the area on the top of the tire starts to wear a bit flat, instead of its original round shape, you end up with a tire that has more rolling resistance than a new gatorskin…
