few of running questions i’m a little curious about:
did a 6 mi fartlek run on the treadmill the other day (10 min w/u, 4 x 5 min @ slightly less than 10K pace, 10 min c/d, all with the TM at 1% incline). I find it easier to do this type of run on the treadmill because I don’t have to constantly look at garmin to maintain pace). Am I cheating myself, or is this as beneficial as running on the road?
Why is running more beneficial in terms of losing weight than cycling? isn’t a calorie burned a calorie burned regardless of how?
what do you think of this current running training schedule (i’m doing a 8 week run focus for some open 10Ks and oly’s):
-7-8mi hill run
-5 recovery
-6-7mi fartlek/speedwork run
-5 recovery
-9-10mi long run
Not sure I can answer all of 'em completely, but a couple comments.
Running on a treadmill at a 0 incline is not really that beneficial, as you actually set yourself up for injury if its all you run on when you go back outside. I’ve been told its partly because of the treadmill suspension, but not really sure. My coach has told me to set the incline at 1% - 2% for a more ‘realistic’ workout.
Regarding the calorie burned is a calorie burned, you’re correct. Weight loss is nothing more, nothing less. (My diet book is only two pages long. Page 1 - calories in - calories out < 0 you lose weight. Page 2 - exercise regularly.) However, on a bike you’re burning calories with your legs. Running the same time amount is using the legs and the arms, which will burn more calories.
Count me in the group that doesn’t buy the incline thing. And yes I run inclines on the treadmill, from 4-9%, I just don’t believe you need to use a 1-2% incline to make a run “more like outside”. As a matter of fact,* I* *know that I don’t. I think one run a week outside is enough to keep the connective tissue in outside running shape. I think people just generally hate the treadmill and make excuses not to use it. We run on trails and other soft surfaces to lessen impacts and then are told not to run on a treadmill because it is too soft and you’ll injure yourself running outside?!? *
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A calories is a calories, it is usually easier to take them in while biking. You can bike and eat as much as you burn…add a recovery drink/meal and there’s your weight loss gone. * *
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Without knowing where you are or where you have been, it’s hard to comment on your program in depth. One thing I might suggest is to add some even faster running, greater than 5k/10k pace, maybe striders or 400’s, halves, mile repeats. That is if your current fitness and resilence warrant such drastic measures.
And 4x5 at 10k pace is probably closer to a slow VO2 max workout than fartlek.
Maybe a tempo day, a fast day, a longer day, and 2 recovery days? Depending on how far you want to take you running block that is. 5 runs is a good place to start.
Oh yeah, regarding your initial question, you are not cheating yourself, it is very beneficial to do this on the treadmill. And convenient as well.
A calorie burned is a calorie burned, but a calorie burned one way relates to weight loss differently than a calorie burned another way. I don’t know anything about cycling calories vs running calories. I think workout intensities is a better indicator for weight loss.
edit: I started running with a 1% incline after reading in men’s health (if I remember correctly) a few years back you should do that. I don’t run on treadmills as much as I used to but I like to use them every now and then for intervals as I will know how fast I am going. The 1% seems to slow me down to outdoor speed, but I don’t know how it compares for injury prevention.
There is some truth to the incline argument. If you’re doing a normal run then maybe there shouldn’t be a need for incline to make it comparable to incline running although this depends on how fast you run. But if you’re doing a tempo run or workout on the treadmill and getting to at least sub 6 pace then you do need to up the incline a bit to counter the lack of wind resistance. If I’m doing a tempo at 5:30 pace then I set the incline at 1% and my ability is the same as when I run the same workout outdoors. At 5:00 miles you’re going 12mph so you’re going to have to make up for the lack of wind resistance somehow.
Even if I do a normal run on the treadmill which is only about 5x a year I set the incline to at least .5% to even things out.
Alternatively, you can just set up a fan in front of the treadmill and you’ll be set.
Striders, I assume you mean strides (or accelerations) These are usually done over shorter distances (50m) and are a steady acceleration from stopped focusing on form. Walk back recovery. Suggested to be done on a soft surface. A great warm up before a harder workout.
Striders are 10-20 second accelerations to about 90% of your max velocity or thereabouts. Just a bit of fast running to get used to what it feels like and get the nerves firing in new and “faster” ways. Not sprints. So if you have never done serious speedwork they are a good place to start.
One way to do them would be at the end of a shorter, easy run. Grassy fields work well, barefoot could work well if the surface is safe and you have no foot issues/injurys. Barefoot gives some of the smaller muscles in your feet a workout and will put you more on your midfoot, if your are not there already. Start out maybe slighly slower than 5k pace and build up to maybe your mile pace or slightly faster. Stop after 70-100 yards or 10-20 seconds. Walk a bit for recovery. Repeat 5-12 times.
These are not primarily training any specific energy system. They are more neuromuscular and “feel for speed” type of training. They should not leave you trashed in any manner. They can be done 2-3 times weekly in conjunction with your easier runs. They are a good lead in to more dedicated speedwork, they will also produce results on their own if you have never done this type of training in the past.
There is much info and more knowledgeable persons than myself on this site regarding these and other running topics, but I hope this helps.
sorry to keep this going, but does anyone know or have a link to a good thread on speedwork/track workouts? i’ve always just done 10x400, wouldn’t mind something different.
I think you should consider pushing your long run longer. I would think 12 would be a good distance. If you can go farther and still recover for your other workouts I think it would only make you better… uh, in the long run. No pun intended.
Here is a program that I used in the fall. There are some track workouts if you are looking to try something different.
If you do a lot of reading about run training you will quickly find that many people don’t recommend doing speedwork (intervals/repeats/etc) until you can sustain a bit higher volume (miles per week). So maybe you should think about working on that before you start doing more track work.
-7-8mi hill run
-5 recovery
-6-7mi fartlek/speedwork run
-5 recovery
-9-10mi long run
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Is this a weekly schedule? If so then my simple advice would be to run every day and stop doing all the hard running. That looks like about 25 miles a week and that is not going to get it done if you want to make good progress over time. When you are running a 10K off the bike then you are not really fast. What you really need to be able to do is endure. Even a sprint tri is usually an hour long and that means it is about 90 percent endurance and 10 percent speed. Double that to O-distance and you are talking about an event that is almost 100 percent aerobic in nature. Hills and speed have their place right at the end of a cycle before your A-race but just tire you out too much to do decent volume the rest of the year.
Add some miles and run them on continuous days, i.e. run 4-6 miles per day five days a week and then a 10-12 mile long run. Slowly add in volume as the year progresses and see if you are not much faster at all distances at the end of the year.
yah, that is my weekly schedule. So you would recommend that I make every run a base run? You mention that 25-30 mi a week won’t give me too much progress, what sort of volume will? My running has definitely improved in the last few months, but I’d one day like to get my base runs down to a sub 8:00/mi pace (I’m currently run ~8:40 to stay in zone 3). 40 mi/week? 50?
So you would recommend that I make every run a base run?
You mention that 25-30 mi a week won’t give me too much progress, what sort of volume will? My running has definitely improved in the last few months, but I’d one day like to get my base runs down to a sub 8:00/mi pace (I’m currently run ~8:40 to stay in zone 3). 40 mi/week? 50?
I don’t know that there is a magic number, but I have averaged six hours running per week (45-50 miles) for the past three years and been able to stay fairly competitive while I tried to increase my volume on the bike. Over the past four months I ran more miles than any time before and it seems to be helping me in the spring races so far.
It is important to remember that your run pace during training is not really important. I have guys that pass me all the time when I am out running. I probably do double their run volume and also ride a bike 10 hours a week, so my legs are never particularly fresh. When I prep correctly for races then I have the speed I need. At the OC Duathlon on Saturday we ran through the first mile in 4:57. How many sub-5 miles did I run in training leading up to this race? Zero. I’m pretty sure that nobody ran a faster last mile after riding the bike for an hour and that is a function of good pacing and endurance, not speed.
My training paces are all done by feel, both because I hate all the gadgetry and because I think that you must recognize when your body is feeling good and bad. Because I run mostly off-road, I would guess my regular day-to-day pace is between 8 and 9 minute miles.
if you read books like daniels’ you’ll see the one thing he DOESN’T specify is weekly mileage. The magic number is the point of diminishing returns. You can go a long way by just running a steady zone 2 pace 5x a week without doing track work.
Even though I live in Ottawa, I actually do not run on treadmill or very very rarely (once this winter so far) so I cannot comment on % incline to simulate road running.
The first workout, you depicted is not really a fartlek run, a fartlek run is more of a run by feel type of run: i.e. while you run, you go suddently decide to go full speed until the stop sign, then slow down, then later on go @ 5K pace for a minute, then later on 10K pace until you hit the church, etc…
AFAIK, Running is more beneficial in terms of losing weight that cycling because you burn more calories when you run than when you cycle and therefore it will take more time or more effort to burn same amount of calories when you cycle.
A calorie burned is a calorie burned. Running is weight bearing, so you will should find it easier to burn calories for a given time and perceived effort unless all your cycling is out of the saddle.
Nice schedule but not sure where the two rest days are. I’d drop the hills in the final four weeks as the speedwork gets more intense. The hill days don’t need to be that long either. Finally, I’d build the long run to two hours.