Question for shoe experts

Triathlon Forum
1

I have problems with shin splints/medial tibial stress syndrome. I have been told that I overpronate, and that I need orthotics, and that I don’t need orthotics, etc. depending on who I talk to. I have also been told that I need motion control shoes.

Doing a water test, where I look at my footprint barefoot, I see that I don’t have flat feet at all, and if anything I have medium to high arches. I also stood on a mat at the local Walking company store, and this concurred that one of my arches was medium, and one was high.

Are motion control shoes made for people strictly with flat feet? I’m concerned that perhaps I’m not in the proper shoes if I have somewhat high arches. The motion control shoes haven’t done anything and neither have the orthotics. If anything, the shoes have exascerbated the problem. Does the amount of arch support increase or decrease as one goes from motion control to stability to cushioned shoes?

2

It ain’t the shoes, bro - it’s your technique. Do a search here on “Pose” and/or got to PoseTech.com

To answer your question specifically however, the general rule is that cushioned shoes are for people with high arches, and motion control for people with low/no arches. Neither are optimal for proper running.

3

Actually, that’s what I’m getting at. I mentioned on the post with the guy asking about Pose earlier that I tried running barefoot, and it was damn near impossible to heel strike. However, it is somewhat of a challenge in my motion control shoes to achieve the same running gait.

I’ve been experimenting with changing my technique a bit. I’m wondering how much these clunky shoes are holding me back, especially since I don’t have flat feet. If I could find a shoe that looked like my old spikes I used in cross-country and track (minus the spikes), I’d give those a whirl.

4

If I could find a shoe that looked like my old spikes I used in cross-country and track (minus the spikes), I’d give those a whirl.

5

Lose the shoes man! Go to a running store and get a spikeless XC shoe. You can also try racing flats. Myself, I run in a pair of VERY light spikes that I took to a shoe repair shop and had grind off the spike plate and attach a flat rubber outsole. Trust me, it will be the best thing you ever do for your running.

I’m at work, but there will be more info to come.

Down with running shoes! Anyone who tells you that you “overpronate” has no idea what they are talking about.

LaWoof

6

that’s exactly what I’m looking for, something that has almost no heel, and has enough padding to make the road surface not tear up my feet. I’d definitely like to hear more about your modification. Looking at racing flats, they look like they are better than my current shoes, but there is still a raise in the heel relative to the toes. I’ll look into the x-c spikeless shoes.

7

There was a thread over on the Pose forum re: the *Puma H Street *- which is apparently a very nice low profile shoe, and has been given strong reviews by Pose runners. If you don’t have wide feet, it’s definitely something to check out. (They’re “fashion shoes”, modeled after the old school track shoes - perfect for our needs)

8

“…I run in a pair of VERY light spikes that I took to a shoe repair shop and had grind off the spike plate and attach a flat rubber outsole…”

Just out of curiousity and apologizing if I sound critical, but why would you do that? Were they ultra-expensive shoes with a custom fit or something? Why not just get a pair of Zoom Waffles or other spikeless flat, as you mention earlier in your post?

BTW, I totally agree with the commentary on the original post: the lighter the shoe, the better…as long as it’s snug (not tight) around the arch and heel of your foot.

9

I looked at some spikeless XC shoes, and those look like exactly what I’d like to experiment with. I have a question though, how long does it take to wear through them running on asphalt? Do they get really torn up? I realize that most running shoes nowadays need to get replaced well before the sole wears out due to a loss in cushioning and impact from heel striking, which if the theories of hitting forefoot are correct, is not necessary. So, it seems to me that they would last a good while, however, I’d like some feedback from those who have tried it.

10

Koz,

I have very strange feet so it is very hard to find anything that will fit. I had a pair of Kennedy spikes that fit like gloves, so off came the spike plate. If you go try on some really nice spikes you will understand why I would go to the trouble. They are the best fitting shoes on the planet. XC shoes are great but tend to be a bit “more” shoe in regards to the upper and I have had a hard time finding a pair that fit as well as the spikes. I do have a few XC shoes that I use on a regular basis, mostly when the trails are wet and sloppy.

Jack,

You can put as many miles as you want in those shoes. As you realized, its not the cushion that you need to worry about, so just run in them until they fall off your feet. I get most of my shoes for free or for very little so I am able to switch them out when they “look” bad or I’m just bored with the style. I have run well over 1000 miles on most of my shoes. Some have seen over 2000, but only becaues I love the way they look. XC shoes have a bit more tread so that will wear off on the roads kinda fast but as soon as its gone the shoe will hold up great and sometimes feel even better. I have a pair of Brooks T3 racers (road flat) that did not feel good until I wore it around for 6 months and compressed the midsole and took the outsole to nothing. Now I like them.

Dont focus on forefoot running too much. Its not about running on the forefoot but running in the most natural way possible. Your heel may still strike when you are running at an even speed, dont worry about it. I have seen sub 27min 10Ker’s strike on the heel while wearing a spike and finishing the last 400 in :56. There is no right way to strike the ground. There is no wrong stride when running barefoot. If you make the switch to a spike or XC shoe or the H Street your form will make the progression to the best stride without ANY form work. Dont think too much, just make sure that you dont over do it as your legs will get pritty trashed at first. Back down the milage or the intensity for a few weeks. Also, do what I call the race pace drill, Training pace speed with race pace turnover. Super quick feet.

LaWoof

11

Well, backing off the mileage is not a problem at all. Right now I think I get in around 2 - 3 runs max per week at around 20 minutes, real slow pace. I have been having problems with medial tibial stress syndrome for several years, which finally turned into a stress fracture last september. The fracture is healed, but every time I increase my mileage past 20 minutes per run, the tell-tale pain next to the shin bone starts to reappear. It goes away after a couple of days, and I start again. The reason I want to try a shoe like the one your describing is that I ran barefoot and I was amazed at how natural my gait felt, lately it has started to feel clunky and choppy with all the crap I have on my feet. I want to try to mimick that natural feel without trashing the bottoms of my feet.

Just curious, how do you get all your shoes for free? Do you spend a lot of time around runners or coaching, where’s your expertise come from LaWoof?

12

LaWoof: Cool. Fit is the most important part. Do what needs to be done. :slight_smile:

Jack: Have you tried running more on softer surfaces? Concrete is about as harsh as it gets. That’s a lot of pounding for which your body is trying to compensate. Grass boulevard, the edge of people’s yards, grass next to the running path, dirt or gravel trail…even asphalt is better than concrete.

13

I could do a little better job of running on softer surfaces, but not a ton better. My running is way low right now anyways, so I’m not too convinced that it is the concrete that is causing the problems. Once upon a time I could run any day, any time, and as long as I wanted, oh how I wish for those days again.

14

Jack,

Whether you have a low, medium, or high arch is irrelevant. What affects overpronation most is how much your arch flexes during your footstrike. Typically someone with a high arch does not have a lot of arch flexion, and someone with a low arch does. Many running books and magazines have oversimplified and turned this correlation into a definitive connection. Unfortunately, even many specialty running stores often make the same mistake. The only way to know if you overpronate is to have someone watch you while you run and see how much your foot rolls over. Not while you walk, not while you stand, while you run.

Forefoot strikers overpronate MUCH less frequently than heel strikers. When you land on your forefoot, you engage the muscles in your foot and lower leg, which helps resist rolling inward. When you land on your heel, you don’t engage any muscles until the rest of your foot comes down to the ground, at which point it’s too late for the muscles to stop you from rolling too far. It doesn’t matter that much if you have a low, medium, or high arch, it matters whether you engage those foot muscles when your foot hits the ground. That’s why it’s so important to have someone watch you while you run. You might very well overpronate when you walk, but if you run with good form you may be fine in a neutral shoe.

Over time you can/will develop a higher arch by actively working the muscles in your foot and lower legs. The more you land on your forefoot when you run, the stronger your muscles will become. They will be able to support you more effectively for longer duration runs. And when you’re not running, they will support you more effectively also – you’ll see a higher and more rigid arch. Most of the dancers that I’ve fitted for shoes have had VERY high arches because they use their feet all the time to support themselves. Same goes for the fastest runners.

On a different note, MTSS is not something to mess around with. As you’ve already seen, if you keep up the stress on your leg bones when you have MTSS you end up with a stress fracture. MTSS is a sign that your body cannot rebuild your bones fast enough for the stress you’re putting on them. You might be putting too much stress on your lower leg bones by landing on your heel, or your bones might not be that strong, or your rebuilding mechanism might operate more slowly than average. If the first is true, barefoot running or running in flats may help you improve your technique and reduce the strain that’s causing the MTSS. If not, then don’t push it or you may end up with another stress fracture.

Last note: Nike is going to announce a shoe called the “Free” in the next two months. If you’re interested in improving your technique by running barefoot but can’t find anyplace you trust to actually be barefoot, the Free is the best possible alternative – better than racing flats or XC shoes. It is designed specifically to mimic running barefoot, and has absolutely no midsole structure at all, front-to-back or side-to-side. VERY cool shoe, and one of the most interesting things I’ve seen from Nike in the time I’ve been working with them.

Lee Silverman
JackRabbit Sports
Brooklyn, NY