I went into a running store in my town that watched me run on a treadmill bare foot while video taping this. Then they play back the video tape in slow motion so they can tell what kind of shoe you need to be in. This clearly showed that I overpronated and I ended up in the Asic Kayano XII that I think feels pretty good. In the past I have had problems with ITBS, and this might be because of the pronation.
However I am a bit confused as others have told me I need to be in a shoe that does not have a built up heel that is subsequently close to the ground, such as a racing flat. They said there use to be not nearly as much running related injuries in the past when shoes where more or less light weight trainers. And that modern running shoes for the most point do more harm than good. I know that I do over pronate, and I weigh around 185 pounds. Do you buy into this minimalist running shoe thing?
I am not rroof… However the minimalist thing did not seem to work for me. I seem to overpronate also, and weigh about 190 pounds. I think the specialty running stores that video tape your gait do a great job.
I know rroof is more qualified however to answer this.
not the rroof, but the minimalist thing didn’t work for me either. Tried running flats on a track - and it killed my shins. Running on a beach barefoot is great but I live in Canada. 'nuff said.
I asked a podiatrist who was strongly recommended (by runners) and she didn’t really believe in the minimalist thing either, especially not for me. The orthotics she had done for me have let me run pain-free for almost two months now (although I haven’t drastically increased mileage yet)
I, too, am not rroof, but I have been known to play him on tv…
I do buy into the minimalist approach. I am a major pronator, have won several awards for it, and kept getting ITBS and other types of inflamation/irritation until I went with a neutral shoe.
Did they video tape you from behind with the shoes on also? I have had this done and it works great to see how stable you are in different shoes. I think this is even more important for a lighter shoe. There are some racing flats that I wouldn’t last 5 miles in because I’d be running on the side of the shoe but I run fairly neutral in training shoes. It’s all pretty clear if you watch from behind.
Is there really evidence that says there are more injuries now?
Yes, I “buy” into the minimalist running shoe idea - just to get that out of the way. I have a pretty flat foot and “overpronate” (get to that term in a minute) and train in lightweight trainers to racing flats. Race in as little as possible. However, as with most things, it is never this simple…
But, to those that merely spout on about the minimalist camp - they have likely NEVER seen a true pedal pathology. If you truly have some PT tendon dysfunction, or undiagnosed tarsal coalition, or severe forefoot varus, old injury, etc. then you will never run in a minimalist shoe without pain and/or increased risk of injury. You may be this person.
Running shoe stores are about the opposite - trained by the shoe companies (per se) as they have a plethora of shoes for various people and they do their best to guestimate who would do best in what. Occasionally I’ll walk into a “reputable” running store, asking for advice, and I am often very surprised at the junk I hear. I would say, on average, that more people are put into overbuilt shoes than likely need them. But, it is a bit of a selection process. Those that are efficient runners that have been running for years either just buy shoes online, or walk right in, try something on and go. When people come in ASKING for help - they may very well need it. The 240 lb weekend warrior may very well do best in a Brooks Beast. He probably won’t get injured running his next 10 mile week, local 5K and keeps the shoes for 2 years. If he were to do the same in a Saucony fasttwitch - not so good.
So … find a store you trust. Go with your instincts a bit. Run. Run some more. Then run a lot more. As you get your overall run fitness: heart, lungs, muscles, joints, tendons - you can start to go with less and less of a shoe. If you find that you are frequently getting injured (and careful trying new “form” things like Chi running, Pose, etc.) or nagging little things, seek some help with your particular biomechanics (good luck finding that person though). Some runners do well in orthotics then. Many hate running in them (me).
What about someone with Morton’s neuroma (i.e., me)?
Are minimalist shoes a bad idea for those people? I switched from heal striking last year, but have had some pains from the neuroma if I try to use racing flats. I made the mistake of running a half-marathon in them before being diagnosed and getting orthotics. I really prefer light shoes, but I seem to need more cushion up front. I’m not really sure what to look for.
If you have true Morton’s neuroma (commonly misdiagnosed), then a racing flat might not be for you (unless the neuroma is addressed - PM for details about that). Running fast with a quick turnover does produce a lot more stress on the forefoot. Nice and efficient for most runners, but not if you have a “pre-existing” pathology.
I’ve said this before, but you might want to try the Saucony type-A. Real close to a racing flat, but with the cushioning of a light weight trainer. Not really either - a good shoe for you. I use them for marathons since I can’t run a mary in flats either.
rroof, in your reply you were going to talk more about about overpronation but then didn’t. What were you going to say?
Grant
(big over pronator and heavy motion control shoe wearer)
Sorry
Lets get technical! - pronation is a NORMAL motion we all need. At heel strike (yes I said heel strike), the heel is inverted, but starts to evert. The talus starts to abduct on top of the talus (bringing the medial arch down). This “unlocks” the forefoot which starts to abduct. You foot is now a nice, adapted appendage that can step on a rock, in soft sand or on concrete. A fraction of a second later, the foot re-supinates to become a rigid lever for propulsion/toe-off. A few more things are going on, but lets just leave it at that. Most of us need 4-6 degrees of pronation (obscure measurement that rougly equals heel eversion).
Overpronation is basically more than 4-6 degrees. Vague, but … The problem with the triplanar motions of pronation is that it is like a cog phenomenon. You go 4 degrees - good, go 7 then BAM - all the way (say 20). Hard to have, say 9. This is virtually impossible to “watch” as someone runs, even to the very trained eye. We use slow mo cameras with reflective dots on points and a computer to help. When the shoe stores video tape from behind, you do get a nice, general idea about the stabilty of the rearfoot, but this does not mean someone “overpronates”. And, even if they do, this doesn’t necessarily correlate to an injury either.
If you are put into a shoe that tries to eliminate pronation, a normal motion, you can end up with problems as well since your now have eliminated your natural shock absorbing/torque convertor. Now, it gets more complicated still as the newer stability shoes are mostly trying to decelerate the rate of pronation, rather than totally eliminate it (a good thing).
That probably muddied the waters more than it helped - but some of you can probably glean some info from my rant … I don’t feel like reading this or proofing it
Thanks for the response. I think I will give the Saucony shoe a try.
I was seen by a podiatric surgeon whom I trust, but your comment about misdiagnosis has me wondering a bit about what other conditions could cause that type of pain.
I am not rroof either, however I agree with all his points. I view it as three camps…minimalist…no extra support but padded shoes…supportive shoes.
I believe the best option is the middle one…shoes with padding but no extra support, no plastic shanks and no huge drop heel to toe. Minimalist simply does not work on pavement. Humans are not meant to run on pavement. We need padding for that. But aside from that, we don’t need all this additional stuff that our brains are not in tune to handle. Our brain patterns were formed from childhood and youth with respect to how the rest of our bodies interact with our feet. Better to let your foot do what it has always done and not mess with nature…instead, work with it.
