I’m starting my base period again after completing my 2 “A” races for the spring. My bike times have increased significantly due to my purchase of a QR Santo which I really like. However, in races and when I do intervals I tend to top out at about 22.5 mph. In my last two races I was 3rd in my AG in the Texas State Tri (Oly) and 8th in Cactus Challenge (Oly). Based on the race results, I figure I need to be avg about 23.5 to 24 mph.
I do not own a disc and question purchasing one as in the last 2 races I passed a few disc equipped folks. My race wheels are the carbon flanged Real Design 40 mm Supersonic.
Question: Now that I’m starting base with a peak for mid to late August for IRP Woolman (Oly) what kind of workouts would y’all recommend besides long rides to help build strength and aerobic capacity to be pulling 23 to 24 mph speed on a 40k course.
Forgive me if I left anything out. This is my first real technical post on Slowtwitch.
Thanks for the feedback. During my last build phase I was doing some anaerobic work outs.
2x20 with 5 min rests I did that a few separate occcassions and ladder intervals. Would you recommend the intervals you suggessted before build or base 2 or what?
You have to be able to go fast before you can hold fast. It sounds like your limiter is strength and power not endurance.
Continue what your are doing but also throw in some very short (1 minute or even 30 seconds) at very high speed intervals and accelerations to develop your power and strength.
Last summer I could time trial at about 23 mph. I was shooting for 30 mph on my short intervals.
from what i’ve gathered on this forum and gordo’s, 5 minutes rest is too much for the famous 2X20 workout. it should only be long enough so that you get your nerve back to start again. i take 2’ at most. 1’ would probably be sufficient.
I’m going to go counter to most of the guys here. Yes, you need to get raw speed before you can sustain speed. Have you ever done any motor pacing work? I know, I know… “that’s drafting!” Yes, it is. But it goes a LONG way to getting used to turning over a big gear for a long time, gets the whole sensation of speed on a bike into a comfortable range, and gets one used to how the bike behaves at that speed so that handling the bike isn’t a concern. Group riding can do this too, to a certain extent (as long as the speed is very high).
Okay so say I can hold 23.3 mph on a 14-18 mile bike course of a tri, but I want to hold that for a HIM does everyone recommend the 2x20 or something different as the race is much less anaerobic? Sorry to be slightly OT.
I was in sort of a similar situation when I first got into the sport. Was much stronger on a Road Bike than what was showing up in my TT’s. A couple of tips I got from a new pro that basically won all the amateur races (age group nationals etc.,)she entered and then went pro. Stop riding with the local Elites and Pro’s cyclist on group rides. Stop drafting on training rides. Do a fair amount of low heart rate big gear work to build your strength. My training had basically involved riding my road bike with the local elite and cat 1 crit racers. I got rid of all those rides (except when I wanted to have a little fun) and started doing the big gear low heart rate stuff. I do a lot of it on a Tacx trainer so I can monitor wattage and heart rate. Long story short I went from riding 1:02’s in 40ks’s to regularly breaking an hour on flat courses. In addition I was able to improve my half iron bike split on the exact same course from 2:32 to 2:20 flat which is 24 mph. I’m a bigger guy 6’3" 185 so the amount of drag really goes up when I start getting up over 24mph. Also don’t worry about speed when you are out on your training ride. This local pro and another one who is an extremely strong cyclist don’t even ride with computers. It’s all percieved effort. Some workouts to use are 4x8 mins descending with 3 mins ez between. Build that workout up to where you are doing 3to4 by 15 mins. The key to the workouts is higher output for the each rep than the one prior.
The group rides are fun but the constant changing pace and cadences is not going to help your TT’ing much. Belive me I fought this and the motorpacing stuff forever but at the end of the day if you want to be a strong TT rider that has to be priority A and then rest of those rides if you want to continue to do them should never be more than a c priority workout.
What you’re talking about is holding sprint tri speed for a HIM. So you want to be able to ride the same speed and move your hr from zone 5 to zone 3 (15-20 beats lower).
Look at gordo’s forum for a HIM workout suggestion. This was the workout suggested to work on dialing in pacing the bike so you can run at your tempo pace. Gordo said aim for a average hr difference of 10 beats between steady and mod-hard:
45min run-20 min build then 25min at steady pace
2.5 hour ride-15 min just ride, then 40/20/40/20mins alternate steady pace/mod-hard pace
45min run-15 min steady, 6x5 min alternate mod-hard/steady pace
Exact opposite effect here – it was the group riding that brougth my 40K TT down from 59’s to 56’s. The solo stuff wasn’t getting me up to the speed I needed.
I think for semi-experienced athletes the mesaage from the two of you would be to add something new to your training.
Your muscles get used to the stresses you put them under, so if you only stress them in one way all the time, you plateau. If you throw in a different stressor (like a group ride or big gear work), your muscles have to adapt and in doing so they get stronger.
2x20 min is a 20 min interval at AT or Aerobic Threshold, then 2 to 5 min rest and do it again. My understanding (I’m sure I’ll be corrected) is one is to maintain the same quality or improve quality across the interval. Meaning, one should maintain speed, intensity or mprove speed and intensity during the second 20 min of suffering.
As a side note, I heard about these workouts on this forum, ran it by my coach. Doing this workout is a great race simulation and a complete and total flog fest.
Speaking of quality, I’m glad this discussion has been of substantive quality. I’m still pondering where/how periodization fits into this discussion.
I’ve always understood that either one works on aerobic workouts or high intensity workouts and the twain shall not meet. I’ve gathered this from Joe Friel, etc.
<< My bike times have increased significantly due to my purchase of a QR Santo >>
You meant to say DECREASED significantly. If they had indeed increased, then you indeed may want another bike.
The ST semantics police never sleep.
FWIW (not much) I think the famous 2x20 are better done w/a longer (4-5 min) rest interval. Otherwise, you are actually doing a 1x40, no matter what psychological boost the 1-2 min “break” espoused by many might be giving you. Which is by default a (slightly) lower intensity level - since if you could ride that hard for 40 mins, then you should be able to ride a little harder for “just” 20 mins.
When I do 3x13’s (I don’t know why I like these, but I do) I do them w/ a 2 min rest interval, and man does that 2 mins go by fast. From what I’ve gathered, when you are doing Z4 intervals, you normally want to shoot for a work/rest interval of about 4:1. So for a 20 min WI, you should have 5min RI. (at least according to Gale Bernhart, and others)
Another good one is to do even shorter/harder intervals with more like a 2:1 work/rest breakdown. 5mins on/2.5 mins off is good, you can go mega-hard on the work interval, and recover enuff to do it again, and again, and again…