It nearly happened in IMUK 2006 when an age grouper was run down in by a pro in the last 10K, and it was even closer in IMLZ last weekend when an age grouper was within 3Km of winning. Im sure there may have been some other close calls. In both these races there was just one mass start, no pro waves starting 15 mins ahead.
Now what happens on the day that an AGer records the fastest time but is not the first to cross the finish line. I would feel that the AGer would have been denied the glory of running in as the winner, the leading pro might feel a) embarassed and b) irked an not knowing and thus having the chance to run down the AGer.
so you want 1000 people getting on their bikes within 3 minutes of each other to start biking on a normal sized street…yea…good luck with that. Waves exist nor for the pride of the pros but the safety of the masses.
so you want 1000 people getting on their bikes within 3 minutes of each other to start biking on a normal sized street…yea…good luck with that. Waves exist nor for the pride of the pros but the safety of the masses.
clarify: I was talking about IMs. Let’s exclude 70.3s because waves are entirely necessary in those events. However for an IM out of 2500 competitors, I don’t feel that adding the 50 pros so the main wave will significantly compound any congestion problem. Certainly at the point when they will be though T1 will not be the when the most traffic is coming through.
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so you want 1000 people getting on their bikes within 3 minutes of each other to start biking on a normal sized street…yea…good luck with that. Waves exist nor for the pride of the pros but the safety of the masses.
A. What the heck are you talking about? The overwhelming majority of Ironman branded races (140.6) are mass swim starts among the age groupers. IMLou is the only one on the top of my head that I could think of that doesn’t have a mass age group swim start.
B. What planet are you on to think that there are 1000 people exiting the Ironman swims within 3 minutes of each other? Most Ironman races have about 2,300-ish starters and 40%+ of the field are not exiting within 3 minutes of each other.
so you want 1000 people getting on their bikes within 3 minutes of each other to start biking on a normal sized street…yea…good luck with that. Waves exist nor for the pride of the pros but the safety of the masses.
I’m not sure what that means. Any IM is a mass start and would put 1000 athletes on the road at the same time.
Only the pros should be able to comment on whether they get a wave start or not, and as far as I know it is overwhelming for that start…
The AG race is a different race, we have discussed this over and over…Tons of drafting, no marshalling so to speak, especially when compared to pros, and anyone that is really that fast can step up at any time a get their pro licenc and race head to head for the money…That is they only fair way to race for $$$, head to head, all other formats are skewed…There is a whole list of great AG’ers that did well in the AG ranks, then went pro only to find out that it really is a different race…
But the question really is, if an AG’r is fast enough to win over a pro, then:
A) Why isn’t that AG a pro? Get a license and join the pro’s if you want to have the glory of finishing the line first
B) Why isn’t there an Elite Amateur division for all USAT and WTC races so the fastest Amateurs, regardless of age, can have a good shot at truelly racing each other and not getting stuck behind the AG’rs looking to just finish. Fast racers weaving in and out of the “finisher” racers is much more dangerous than anything else.
C) Monty, I have a lot of respect for you and several of the other pioneers of tri’s, but sometimes those comments come off elitist, like AG’s should have no say in the events they are involved in. I do agree the AG race is a different race, but then again, there are even more races within the AG race. Like I mentioned, what about the AGers that are fast enough to podium or top 10 in their AG, but not fast enough to qualify Pro. Aren’t these athletes in their own race? SHouldn’t they have their own start?
D) Chris Thomas is a perfect example of an AG that is beating most of the Pro’s and is very likely to win the overall at an event based on time alone. With the new WTC standards for prize money, should a pro still make their money if an AG beats them? Should the AG be forced to go Pro like CATing up in cycling?
And I agree with you Monty from last week, the WTC is hitting the pro’s in the purse a bit hard. I get the original intent of the WTC, but the end result is more negative than positive.
Rev 3 may be the future for pro’s that want to make money. Pro’s should do 1 70.3 and 1 IM per year to qualify for Clearwater or Kona, then do Rev3-esqe races for the money.
I’d go even further and say that the pro women should go 30min before the pro men, who should go 15min before the AG.
DrDubs is at the heart of the issue. Pro Women get swamped with competitive male age groupers early on the bike if they don’t have enough time between them and the AG wave. It leads to a clogged up race for them. And a lot of problems with drafting come in to play.
pros should get their own start. over zealous and possibly violent age groupers could just hose their entire race messing with pros. while this may represent a small minority, im all for having pros start early and have a clean race.
it is unfortunate that top male age group catch the female elites. theres no getting around this. the females need to stop complaining and htfu.
Why not just seed everyone according to expected finish times, like they do in marathons or other large running races? Who cares age/gender, if you are doing an X time you start in wave Y. That seems the most fair. The faster people competing for top 10 will be in the first waves anyways so it won’t affect AG awards/placing.
I’m in a “slow” AG and we are often waved as such, but damn if I don’t beat half of the M30-34 anyways.
Why not just seed everyone according to expected finish times, like they do in marathons or other large running races? Who cares age/gender, if you are doing an X time you start in wave Y. That seems the most fair. The faster people competing for top 10 will be in the first waves anyways so it won’t affect AG awards/placing.
I’m in a “slow” AG and we are often waved as such, but damn if I don’t beat half of the M30-34 anyways.
I would assume because in a tri event there are parts that are weaknesses and strengths for all involved. In running its easy to corral because you know your baically only going to be running X pace. (if your true to yourself). But in a tri race all 3 events are normally equal for all involved.
So lets say for me I was in the 12:30 finishing group, but due to my swim weakness, I somehow get in the way of the other groups that are behind me. Next you’ll tell me I shouldnt have seeded myself that high because I was in the way of people, or making them swim all around me.
Now I guess they could do a swim expected time finish and seed you that way.
this would be IDEAL…but it might be difficult for those racing to figure out who you are competing against - that is who is in your AG if, under your ‘seed by time’ idea…
Pro start has to stay…female pros first, males next (15mins), AG last (15mins). The whole “what if the AGer records the fastest time” thing is bunk…they’re completely seperate races, you can’t compare times raced under different conditions and rules (official and unofficial).