Pro Ironman Prize Money is Insulting and Damaging to the Sport

I feel Ironman is taking the path that marathon races took in the mid to late 80’s and 90’s - they started catering solely to the amateurs because that’s where the money is. But, during that time, the average times for the entire field began to slow down dramatically - look at the Boston qualifying times in the 70s vs. the 90’s. Boston, New York and Chicago started to lose the respect they had amassed in the 70’s and early 80’s with heros such as Shorter, Rodgers and Salazar.

And of course, the fact that the US produced no top runners during that time internationally, and thus interest in distance running started dying down had nothing to do with the times getting slower. Also, the more you add people to an event, AVERAGE times will go down, simply because of the numbers game. The more you add people, the bigger the middle curve gets.

It’s like chess. Chess was nowhere in America until Bobby Fischer. Then, clubs everywhere had people bringing their kids in, convinced they had the “next Bobby”. Once he didn’t defend, it died off dramatically, and it didn’t recover those numbers until late in the 90’s. Coincidentally when some Americans started doing better in chess, and you had movies like “Searching for Bobby Fischer”.

Hrm. Not even sure that makes any sense, I had a point that I lost somewhere in the middle. Ah, well, should have some people saying “huh?” anyway…

John

great points.

I’m around everday people, non endurance athletes, daily.

What do they talk about? How much NFL, NBA players make. They bring up Phelps because of the money he makes. They bring up Lance because of his celebrity status, they bring up Tiger because of the money he makes.

Yes, these people jumped out to capture the publics imagination. But, last time I checked, popular music and movies get known because of being over hyped. Do you want a hero in triathlon? Create it, throw money at it, everybody has story - publicize that story. Is Wellington not a Tiger? Is Potts not a Lebron?

That’s what really concerns me re: the future success of WTC now that it probably has a shorter term view of profitability since the purchase.

Limiting the pro free entries may be the first step in eliminating any costs that the new group may seem as not a direct oppty for profits - not good news for the working class folks.

Interestingly, there’s a new half in CT June 7th, the Rev 3 race that’s taking a gamble inviting some top long coursers for a 100k payout. I’m weary that they are really opening the wallet a bit too much upfront but then again I’m not an accountant for the gent behind the scenes.

Either way, kudos for the race for stepping up, taking a chance at something that has some solid potential for the future. Even if it just turns out to be a one year affair it’s a great oppty for some pros.

I think Wellington might be the answer. She just needs to be promoted the right way. On another note I also agree with original poster. I have said it before . Who wants to put their body through the training it takes most to win a ironman when the payout does not equal your medical, travel and equipment exspenses. There should be a tier purse payout just like tennis. its amazing what 20th gets in most tennis tournies.

Runaway greed, blind capitalistic commercialism in the psychotic pursuit of profit…now, I read about that somewhere recently but I just can’t put my finger on it. All I can remember is that the story didn’t end well for the purveyors.

ok, don’t look at avg. marathon times, just look at Boston qualifying times.

A lot of people say the reason we did not produce the runners we are producing now was because the support, money, hype went away. Except for Bob Kennedy, who were kids to look up to in high school running? It wasn’t until Nike stepped back in sponsored Meb, Culpepper, Abdi did the running boom we’re having today begin to take root. and maybe letsrun gets some credit.

You’re right, we need inspiration and athletes can be more inspiring and respected when they are earning as much as athletes in other sports and the financial incentive is big for young athletes.

ok, don’t look at avg. marathon times, just look at Boston qualifying times.

A lot of people say the reason we did not produce the runners we are producing now was because the support, money, hype went away. Except for Bob Kennedy, who were kids to look up to in high school running? It wasn’t until Nike stepped back in sponsored Meb, Culpepper, Abdi did the running boom we’re having today begin to take root. and maybe letsrun gets some credit.

You’re right, we need inspiration and athletes can be more inspiring and respected when they are earning as much as athletes in other sports and the financial incentive is big for young athletes.
Right there. If there is a perceived financial incentive, any sport will take off and start producing young stars. Table tennis, soccer, rugby, cricket, many other sports are hugely popular and financially rewarding in other countries. Soccer is probably in the top 3 or 4 sports for overall participation in the world, and many people make a great living from it.

Here in the US, it’s not as popular though, and tough to make a living (the MLS notwithstanding) because companies don’t promote the sport except around World Cup time.

Guaranteed that if Nike and Coors got together and threw a ton of money at luge, you’d see within a few years a ton of people falling down mountains on their sleds.

John

I feel Ironman is taking the path that marathon races took in the mid to late 80’s and 90’s - they started catering solely to the amateurs because that’s where the money is. But, during that time, the average times for the entire field began to slow down dramatically - look at the Boston qualifying times in the 70s vs. the 90’s. Boston, New York and Chicago started to lose the respect they had amassed in the 70’s and early 80’s with heros such as Shorter, Rodgers and Salazar. Look at these races today; they are paying top dollar in APPEARANCE fees in addition to cash prizes. (see article: IM is now charging pros, and providing no appearance fees)

You have it backwards. In the 80s and 90s is when marathons actually started paying big appearance fees and big prize money. They were not “catering solely” to amateurs, they were catering far more to elites.

three words:

supply.

vs.

demand.

this isn’t a critical, ‘society-can’t-function-right-without-it’ item like police/fire protection, education, health care, infrastructure, etc.

so the market rules.

Some businesses need to do all of what you say. IM is virtually unique. Almost a monopoly and they sell as much of there product as they can “produce” at a high price.

Again, I would prefer they support pros, but how will it benefit them, the organizers, not how do other business practices benefit other businesses.

Styrrell

this was already discussed: paying more for pros brings more attention to the races - it’s great marketing, it gains them more ad, sponsor, tv revenue, more participants, more gear with the IM logo bought by fans, not just athletes.

supply and demand? there is demand, look at the sold out races, look at the gear bought. capture a larger audience by making ironman pros heros, well known by the espn viewer.

great points.

I’m around everday people, non endurance athletes, daily.

What do they talk about? How much NFL, NBA players make. They bring up Phelps because of the money he makes. They bring up Lance because of his celebrity status, they bring up Tiger because of the money he makes.

Yes, these people jumped out to capture the publics imagination. But, last time I checked, popular music and movies get known because of being over hyped. Do you want a hero in triathlon? Create it, throw money at it, everybody has story - publicize that story. Is Wellington not a Tiger? Is Potts not a Lebron?

The difference between triathlon and pretty much all of these other examples you’ve touched on in your post is that each of them has an audience in its own right. The NFL, NBA, baseball, tennis, golf, and the Olympics have become marketable properties without specific athletes. Music, movies, and TV are all marketable without knowing anything about the specific actors, musicians, or personalities involved. If the everyday people around you are talking about how much these athletes make, it’s not because that’s what drew their interest – they were already interested in the game, and the salaries are just an aspect of that.

Let me give you another example: Michael Phelps has some phenomenal and historic performances at a number of meets outside of the Olympics. In the 2007 World Championships, for example, he won seven gold medals and broke five world records, but how much mainstream media attention did you hear about that? Where was the million dollar bonus from Speedo held out as a carrot for him there? The answer is that the reason the media blitz for Phelps worked in 2004 and 2008 is because the Olympics already had a built-in audience, hungry for heroic and historic performances. That audience just doesn’t exist in the same way for the World Championships, and as it stands, no amount of money from Speedo, Powerbar, or whoever is going to change that.

Wellington is, to be sure, a wonderful story, bursting onto the scene from almost nowhere, but can she capture the imagination of mainstream audiences? I’d love it if she could, but I don’t see it happening, even if she breaks PNF’s career victory record and best finish time at Kona. I think the most she’ll be to mainstream audiences is someone who was better than most at a slightly crazy endeavor.

The reason NBC highlights the emotional stories in their broadcast is because those are the things that have a better chance of appealing to the mainstream. They want the people who have overcome the odds, battled back from the brink, beaten back the skeptics to achieve the impossible. Marc Herremans is probably the closest thing we’ve had to the type of story that could capture the imagination of the mainstream audience – a former pro paralyzed in a crash only to battle back and win the physically-challenged title. A great story, but somehow still not enough …

Triathlon, in and of itself, doesn’t have a mainstream audience. People don’t pay attention to the game for the game’s sake alone, as it currently stands, and until it does, there won’t be a way to throw money at the sport’s professionals to create the kind of hype you describe, simply because nobody will be watching.

The one tactic that’s been mentioned on this thread that actually might have a shot at attracting more mainstream attention is a reality-show take on IM. Take, say, 20 average, sedentary people (10 men and 10 women), and follow them in a weekly reality show as they prep for IM. To create the week-in, week-out nastiness that people have come to expect from reality shows (and that tends to create an audience), limit the number of slots into the race to two per gender. The finale is to have the two “qualifiers” in each gender race for the prize – $1M. It’s unfortunate, but I think this has a better chance of reaching the average joe out there in TV-land than spending that $1M on the professionals. (And, just to make it clear, I do agree that the pros in our sport deserve better for the work they put in – the current reality, though, is that they can’t expect things to change any time soon.)

cramer

It is a business plain and simple. When the pros can pull 80,000 fans who pay $35 and more per race they will get paid like football and baseball players.

I couldn’t agree more with you. Thanks for bringing up this topic.

reality show = disgusting.

Again, look to marathon running. These athletes are not house hold names and they will never be up there with the nfl/nba, but they are given reasonable prize money compared to what IM pros make.

Triathlon is the IT sport for the average joe wanting to get in shape and having idols and heros for a sport that allows anyone to compete in the same race as the worlds best triathletes, unlike football and basketball, is appealing and amazing.

the self loathing here is pretty amazing.

Ironman (WTC) is not giving back to the sport that it is profiting from as much as it should be. No, you can’t compare triathlon to mainstream American sports, but you can compare it to running. Other than high school and collegiate runners, who looks up to milers such as Alan Webb and Bernard Lagat? Yet, they get huge prize amounts.

The Tour de France’s ASO also has a monopoly, like WTC, but I don’t see them skimping on prize money.

“When the pros can pull 80,000 fans who pay $35 and more per race”

How many participants are there in IM races world wide? How much are they paying per race?

It is business, plain and simple.

If paying more to pros is great marketing give an example where paying more to pros has made a sport more marketable.

Styrrell

reality show = disgusting.

Again, look to marathon running. These athletes are not house hold names and they will never be up there with the nfl/nba, but they are given reasonable prize money compared to what IM pros make.

Triathlon is the IT sport for the average joe wanting to get in shape and having idols and heros for a sport that allows anyone to compete in the same race as the worlds best triathletes, unlike football and basketball, is appealing and amazing.

the self loathing here is pretty amazing.

Ironman (WTC) is not giving back to the sport that it is profiting from as much as it should be. No, you can’t compare triathlon to mainstream American sports, but you can compare it to running. Other than high school and collegiate runners, who looks up to milers such as Alan Webb and Bernard Lagat? Yet, they get huge prize amounts.

The Tour de France’s ASO also has a monopoly, like WTC, but I don’t see them skimping on prize money.
There are 10-20 times more runners world wide than triathletes. And, those runners are going through more shoes than triathletes since they are not riding their bikes.

Actually, I suspect that the amount of prize money that ASO offers at the TDF, for this 21 day event, is small compared to the amount they bring in just from world wide TV alone.

I addressed this: tri gear vs. running shoes, earlier in the thread. How many shoes does it take to buy a tri bike with a power meter and aero wheels?

to the other poster, Running. Running has upped its prize purses and sponsorships and this generation has heros and this has lead to a new boom in talent and interest. interest = more sales for products, more spectators (even if only online, which equates to ad revenue).

The sport of running is not overflowing with money, but they pay their pros appropriately at races, something Ironman/WTC is failing to do.

three words:

supply.
vs.
demand.

this isn’t a critical, ‘society-can’t-function-right-without-it’ item like police/fire protection, education, health care, infrastructure, etc.

so the market rules.

What market? There is no market. NAS/WTC effectively monopolizes professional IM racing.

An analogy would be Hershey buying up all chocolate companies, then jacking up the price of chocolate to $100/bar. People will still buy it - there’s still supply and demand - but it’s not a free market.

If each IM event were truly independent and had to actually compete to get top pro athletes to show up, you might see pay rise significantly. Or you might see the pro category disappear entirely. But you’d definitely see the market at work.

I would argue that, for a lot of reasons, there are very steep barriers to entry to compete with WTC/NAS. Triathlon One-O-One? They got shut down fast.