Inspired by the Front Page article: http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Where_is_the_money__j2272.html
So which races besides Rev3 pay timely?
Which races poor slowly or not at all?
How can we as AGer’s help athletes get paid?
WTC races have been getting better, and in general I think that it depends on whether or not there is drug testing. Challenge races seem to be ok according to a few of the TeamTBB athletes. The Alpe D’Huez tri was pretty bad in the last year or two according to a couple of teammates also.
Getting paid on the spot is good, but it also depends on drug testing, or that is the reasoning given for holding payments a bit. If there is testing, then it seems to take 3-4 weeks on average. I am personally ok with that. When races have big money prize purses, then I think that they should also have the drug testing to go with it. But, that makes the payments take a little longer.
It was great that ST published this article and called out the entire RD community to some degree. Professionals in most industries get paid for performance at a fixed future date after all of their performance requirements have been met to get the “bonus” (which in effect is what prize money is). In theory Pro athletes should get paid out x number of days after the drug test comes back clean…but to some degree, this is a bit of BS and it gives the RD’s a “way out”.
I think guys should be paid on the spot with the assumption they are clean. They are being tested out of competition anyway, which is really what matters. In competition testing is largely bogus (well, anyone getting caught in competition must be a complete idiot). The assumption should be that athletes are clean, and they get paid for their position in the race on the spot. If they test positive later, then their national federations can take care of business and impose a ban, which is likely much worse than losing race winnings from some Tier2 race…I suspect that that the Tier 1 races pay out reasonably promptly.
I have no problem with payouts taking a bit longer due to doping controls obviously. The problem here isn’t waiting 3-4 weeks extra but everything from 6 months up to a year sometimes.
Another example is European 70.3 championships last year who waited 7 or 8 months or something before paying me. In that case we’re talking one of the biggest and most successful Ironman organizations which makes it very hard to understand why they have to wait that amount of time to pay out a relatively small amount of money.
I have no problem with payouts taking a bit longer due to doping controls obviously. The problem here isn’t waiting 3-4 weeks extra but everything from 6 months up to a year sometimes.
Another example is European 70.3 championships last year who waited 7 or 8 months or something before paying me. In that case we’re talking one of the biggest and most successful Ironman organizations which makes it very hard to understand why they have to wait that amount of time to pay out a relatively small amount of money.
don’t you know we are in a recession?
they get paid a YEAR in advance… it’s NOT ok for them to hold YOUR paycheck.
at work, if i get tagged for not passing a drug test i get fired, and i get paid for the time i worked. no question. it shouldn’t be different for the pro’s.
you guys need to organize man. it’s your LIVING they are messing with, it’s NOT ok for them to mess with it like this! what can we do to help?
The number of athletes tested out of competition (at least in the US) is quite small unless they are ‘left over’ from being in the USAT pool or unless they are foreign athletes who are in their national federation pool. The WTC out of competition list is, as far as I know, pretty small and published. I’ll leave you to think on that.
I do agree with the statements made though about athletes needing to speak up a bit more. The ‘issue’ is that once someone speaks up in triathlon, it is usually seen more as complaining or being difficult. Those athletes then find it difficult to feel as if they are treated like the other professionals who may not speak up. It comes down a bit to being more ‘pro’ in all respects…when dealing with race directors, signing up for races, notifying race directors if you are NOT going to race, and not having your name on multiple start lists on the same weekend. And, if we as pros are expected to do that, then I think that the race directors should have some accountability as well…which is why the article was good.
Hopefully 70.3 Europeans won’t be the same this year…we’ll see. Again, for 7th it’s barely enough to cover the whole trip from Swiss with a rental car, but we’ll see!
The only issue is paying someone who tests positive, then the 2nd palce wants more money. Some organizations may not have it. In the extreme look at the Lifetime race. Sure they probably “have” the money but still its a lot to pay out twice.
Waiting 4 weeks doesn’t seem particularly bad as long as that it and you know it ahead of time.
Does this mean you really can’t cash those really big podium checks?
Styrrell
I think it can happen because it really doesn’t cause them any consequences at the moment. People are still standing in line to sign up for the races and in the case of pro triathletes I know, naturally, that some of the top tier athletes are paid more promptly and it probably doesn’t matter much to them whether or not someone like me get pissed off and speak up about it.
I should mention that this seems to be less of a problem in the states as Rev3, Tricalifornia and others have been very good in my experience.
Yeah, the prize money is not very good in that race… Last year they stalled payments by claiming I provided the wrong bank transfer details etc(I didn’t) which I thought was pretty low for an organization of that stature in the sport.
do you guys sign any types of contracts with the RD’s? either your’s or theirs? maybe there should be a form of legal representation where your payment terms are included in the standard contractual agreement that both parties agree upon.
i know at my job, that is normal. considering this to be YOUR job, i would think that should be ‘normal’ for you. it’s part of doing business. it’s not complaining, it’s not ‘being difficult’, it’s just good business to have an agreement in writing before work is completed.
sounds simple on (digital) paper…
Normally not unless there’s some form of compensation involved from the organization(start money, travel compensation etc). Again, the Ironman Germany organization seem to make you sign a contract just to race but it only covers obligations on the athletes part. Which makes it even more ironic that they don’t seem to feel any obligation to pay out prize money to the athlete in reasonable time…
Just a quick story about a great triathlon in BC, Canada. The Wasa lake triathlon has prize money for top placings, but they also have a club challenge which gives $250 to the top club (top 5 times for each club). This year my club took the top club and the RD (Charlie Cooper) gave us a cheque at the awards. I ended up losing the cheque so I never cashed it (my bad for losing it). Earlier this week I received an e-mail from Charlie saying that he sees the cheque still outstanding and offers to send a replacement. Needless to say, I am very impressed.
i’d be getting a standard contract drawn up for myself if i was you…but i’m not, so i will continue to be stuck here at this computer giving advice to someone who i’m envious of for their chosen profession and capabilities, while i continue to get paid on a weekly basis and still HONESTLY feel sorry for you guys not being treated with the same respect all around.
i hope with the help of ST and this article and ensuing thread, that something can be done to establish a mutual respect between ALL RD and Pro’s.
i wish you the best of luck!
What evere happened to that organization of pro triathletes that was being formed last year? This sounds like exactly the kind of thing that needs to be tackled by that group.
I know you guys want a level playing field, but I think you need to separate the payment for services from the entire drug testing debate.
The reason I say this is because the RD’s are conveniently using drug testing as an excuse to delay or withhold payment. It’s an entirely bogus excuse cause chances are that many dirty athletes are passing the drug tests anyway…or at least history has proven this over and over and over again.
We should be applying pressure on the sports infrastructure to execute better testing overall so that you guys feel that when you hit race day the field is as level as possible.
Then the RD’s have no excuse to not pay you ON THE SPOT.
Seriously, how often does someone place in a race and then the drug test comes back and that athlete tests positive…Nina Kraft in Kona? Anyone else…meanwhile all you guys are having your money withheld.
I understand Bjorn is willing to wait for the test to come back clean, and what this reflects is that you guys don’t believe your competitors are even clean on RACE day. It’s one thing for them to be pharmaceutically enhanced through training and clean on race day, and then another thing if they are also not clean on race day.
I see in competition testing as largely bogus/facade for anything other than stage racing, but I’m a fan and probably don’t understand how all these chemicals work. I do think that if we look at it statiscally, most of you guys are getting the short end of things by not getting your money on account of RD’s hiding behind the drug test “results” excuse.
How about having the 2nd place (and everyone else) sue the winner for the money ‘stolen’ by the use doping? That’d bring a pressure component that could make dopers very unwelcome not only by RDs, but also by their peers.
A possibly more reasonable idea - have the money be deposited into a trusted 3rd party (federation?) account already before the race. No money in the account by the event’s date = one doesn’t even have to bother going to the start line. This 3rd party pays everyone after drug testing results are out. Shouldn’t be too difficult to implement.
Unfortunately it is just the less desirable part of human nature.
I have worked for companies that make it policy to hold payment to suppliers for as long as possible. The pros are providing a service to the race in the form of promotion. Less ethical event companies will screw the pros the same way they screw any supplier. I bet Star Events and the WTC event franchises that are “slow” payers do this to all suppliers.
Publicity is a good way to bring attention to the issue. People like this are usually concerned with their public image if not their moral obligation to do the right thing.
I know you guys want a level playing field, but I think you need to separate the payment for services from the entire drug testing debate.
The reason I say this is because the RD’s are conveniently using drug testing as an excuse to delay or withhold payment. It’s an entirely bogus excuse cause chances are that many dirty athletes are passing the drug tests anyway…or at least history has proven this over and over and over again.
We should be applying pressure on the sports infrastructure to execute better testing overall so that you guys feel that when you hit race day the field is as level as possible.
Then the RD’s have no excuse to not pay you ON THE SPOT.
Seriously, how often does someone place in a race and then the drug test comes back and that athlete tests positive…Nina Kraft in Kona? Anyone else…meanwhile all you guys are having your money withheld.
I understand Bjorn is willing to wait for the test to come back clean, and what this reflects is that you guys don’t believe your competitors are even clean on RACE day. It’s one thing for them to be pharmaceutically enhanced through training and clean on race day, and then another thing if they are also not clean on race day.
I see in competition testing as largely bogus/facade for anything other than stage racing, but I’m a fan and probably don’t understand how all these chemicals work. I do think that if we look at it statiscally, most of you guys are getting the short end of things by not getting your money on account of RD’s hiding behind the drug test “results” excuse.
Not really but I have some understanding that a positive in competition test can create some problems with the payment when it does happen. Like I said it’s not really a problem as everyone knows it only take a limited amount of time to get the test results back. No one can hide behind that excuse for several months.
I have no problem with payouts taking a bit longer due to doping controls obviously. The problem here isn’t waiting 3-4 weeks extra but everything from 6 months up to a year sometimes.
Agreed. Understood on the delays in dealing with the testing, but some of these other much longer delays are completely unacceptable and deplorable. How can you take seriously any RD that strings someone along like that for so long?
It’s my understanding that in many/most races the cash money is put up by the title sponsor. Obviously, that money should be secured and set aside before the race, and then paid out after all money winners, who have been picked for testing have cleared. Of course, the problem is that some of these doping positive cases can drag on forever - as some of the more high profile cases in recent years have. However, assuming everything is good, it should be a matter of weeks, before the money is paid out.