Up to a certain level I agree with you, but………people that bought a canyon speedmax cf between 19-24 were thinking they were buying a quality product, the fork/stem issue as we know now was there already in ‘21 and just last December finally the stop rider notice came……back to wheels, Zipp have had numerous hub failures over the years, and I could go one, like the specialzed shiv aerobar issue, the cannondale slice rs losing the front brake issue, the canyon aeroad breaking the bar and seatpost failures, the trek sc disc base bar issue and on and on.
So reputable companies also have their issues in qc.
There are very good, very very good Chinese factories and not so good factories.
That’s a perfect case in point. Do you think a China company would have done that or just ignored the issue. Canyon isn’t God. They can’t predict how every imperfection in a product is going to fail, just because they see some fail. But as they start to see the issue crop up with frequency they acted.
No one is suggesting perfection, but with Canyon, people will eventually get fixes. With a China bike with the same problem you’d just eventually start seeing catastrophic failures in the next few years.
Do you have examples of China direct import brands paying on liability lawsuits? Or examples of a China direct brand mass recall? That’s different than a warranty claim. I like the part where you assumed a warranty claim is the same as spinal or brain injury compensation. We can both play that game if we pretend the other person is saying what they aren’t
Here’s a quick case. Regardless of the merits of the case, the company with nexus in the USA paid the bill. The Chinese manufacturer didn’t. Not much to argue about. No Chinese company without massive presence and direct brand exposure in the US will step up and pay a major settlement simply to “do the right thing”. The US company has liability insurance in this market.
Do you have any examples of Chinese manufacturers being sued for liability lawsuits. ETA just read your Bell link.
It’s all a funny game, first of all the conversation is Chinese bad because they will break, then when you show how many big brands have broken the spiel gets shifted to OK but at least when big brand break they can be sued…
Look I do get your point, but I’m not paying thousands over the odds just so maybe one day when my Zipp explodes I can sue them…
That’s not the point. Companies without significant financial liability resulting from catastrophic failure have a tendency to cut corners. Particularly those that are interested in as low a price point as possible.
It doesn’t mean mistakes never happen with expensive brands, but its a risk.
Well, to be honest, yes I do think there are certain Chinese factories that do stand behind their product. You have know idea how many US triathletes are riding a very well known US triathlon bike brand that are made in a Chinese factory.
Or how many ride wheels from another very big tri brand that are made in a Chinese factorie.
There is I think a misunderstanding in how some factories work that just blatantly copy others design and product, like Winow and others and I would not ride any of these companies products. If the moral standard to just copy paste design like that probable their moral to test properly is also quite low.
But there are other Chinese factories that have a high standard in QC and testing and they deliver very good products. Not saying that with they can’t fail but they do stand behind their products.
And let’s be fair, the way Canyon handles the current situation with the Speedmax is not one that deserves the beauty price, sure in the end all things will be solved but may ahtletes will miss a big part of their season. Same with their aeroad bar faillure it took about 9-10 months before people could ride their bikes again.
It was the same with the Specialized bar recall, it took ages to get all things solved and replaced and here in EU a lot of people missed quite a big part of their season.
So it is not always that big companies have a better/faster solution for their problems.
Legally speaking in sueing a company that is an huge difference between US and EU…
Again, there have been surprisingly few reports of Chinese branded carbon wheels failing at a higher-than-expected rate. At least compared to the major brands.
If there was one brand that was terrible, you’d have Youtubers reviewing the heck out of it and making a lot of money on the terrible outcomes. Or you’d see tons of bad reviews online for them. You just don’t.
This fear of Chinese quality control for carbon wheels was a legit fear in the early days, but those days are long gone, especially when dealing with Chinese brands that have been around for 5+ years (mentioned above). It’s just fearmongering at this point to say you’re risking your life on them - you’re not. It’s been over 10 years now with these wheels now being super common, and they’re reviewed quite well in general.
That said, it’s pretty illegal by US standards for them to ripoff other brands IP. If they’re going to sell wheels, they should sell them under their house brand.
Here’s another way some of these Alibaba finds work - a Western company rejects a batch of product and the China company dumps it in the market directly (or to an intermediary who does the same).
That could be for a finished good or the raw materials that make the finished good. This CAN also happen to the big brands. Where some QC item is missed. But it will happen more with a direct low cost brand simply because the margin isn’t there if there is a major flaw and the business is structured around bottom barrel pricing without a direct presence in the market.
This stuff happens. This is not xenophobia China complaining. Buyer beware when using an important safety item from a budget importer.
Congrats, you found one documented case out of the millions of wheels sold. And I’m sure the name-brands don’t have such a case either (there’s an entire website that was devoted to showing all the carbon failures and most of them were name-brands.)
I’d say at this point it’s almost xenophobic. The only reason I’m saying ‘almost’ is because it’s true that if you go for ultracheap stuff on Aliexpress, you’re very likely to be disappointed with an inferior product. So I could see how people would expect this to apply to the chinese carbon wheels.
Butit’s been 10+ years now that these Chinese carbon wheels have been sold all over the world, used my millions, reviewed numerous times even here on ST, and you don’t have a consensus that they’re failing or too dangerous to ride. It’s definitely common consensus here and elsewhere that the chinese wheel brands that have been around for 5+ years, are making solid wheels despite the low price.
I won’t defend any brand new Chinese no-name fly-by-night wheel company that sells knockoff Princeton wheels for a few months, then suddenly disappears. Scams and bad products of course exist, but these are in a different category than what most people consider ‘real’ chinese wheels from the 5+year old companies.
So… I work with Chinese companies. Buy from Chinese companies. Spend time with engineers and go on trips with people from Chinese companies. I’ve seen catastrophic failures that are not just random chance, but deliberate cost cutting in material or construction in multiple industries… And tell you that I have concerns about quality control from bottom barrel prices on direct import items from a company with no direct liability exposure to the market and you respond it’s a bit xenophobic and the examples I give you are cherry picked.
Ya … You can find these examples all day long. From small component failure, key safety features not working to printers bursting into flames. It’s an issue. Roll that dice. At least you saved some money.
This is clearly not the case for the vast majority of chinese wheels. Again, if it was, youtubers would be making tons of $$ about the exploding carbon wheel videos. Experience over the past 10+ years has shown that at least with Chinese carbon wheels, there are quite a few brands making solid products, and very few (?any) that are selling dangerous exploding stuff like you claim.
Again, this is limited to carbon wheels. Buy other cheap stuff on Aliexpress and there’s fakes, fraudes, and failures galore for sure. They tend to also cost a lot less than the carbon wheels. I myself wouldn’t buy any carbon wheels from Aliexpress but direct from the Chinese manufacturer to avoid any fakes.
Slightly different perspective here. Getting support from Garmin or Tacx (pre or post takeover) in NZ is almost impossible. So the notion that ‘Western’ companies provide universal support is flawed (That said Quarq pre merger most certainly did).
And honestly, being able to ‘sue’ someone after an issue is pretty secondary to something not failing and needing a claim in the firstplace.
I remember when ‘Taiwanese’ was a derogatory statement in relation to quality, but my new Croder Cranks are incredible. My old taiwanese XACD Titanium frame was well welded, but an absolute pig of a bike, all the stiffness where you didn’t want it and the flexibility where you didn’t.
So where I am at - quality varies massively in every country, there is high tech quality coming out of china that is beyond what is ‘production’ quantity produced anywhere else in the world. And there is also stuff coming out that is way cheaper than anywhere else that is of a low quality/low durability. So given the size of China, and number of factories that’s not surprising.
As mentioned, when dealing with international trade direct, with no in country sales/commerce protection then you need to do the research and go in with eyes open when assessing the ‘value of the deal’.
So with all that said, a company clearly trading off another company’s name (where ever that company is based) is clearly being unethical and so would set off all sorts of other alarm bells about their approach to trade. And personally, that’s not somewhere I’d want to spend my money. And that’s my decision to make. I can control my actions, and I can hold my values, but it’s not my place to impose that on others.