So would I, having no special talent or ability, notice the difference between DA and Ultegra. Where would a Chorus groupset fit in, quality/feel-wise? Above or below Ultegra? How about Centaur versus 105, quality/feel?
Is 10-sp versus 9-sp a big deal? Doesn’t it just add a 16 to a 11-23 cogset? As a flatlander, do I care?
haven’t rode campy in a long time, so i’ll let those fans enlighten you there.
9-spd DA or UL is getting pretty hard to find (new) these days, so it’s not really an easy option.
differences in 10-spd DA and UL is mostly weight–DA being a decent amount lighter as a full group. the functionality of the two is not identical, but pretty damn close. DA is a lot more shiny.
UL would actually be more durable in some ways as a day in/day out trainer, especially the all steel cassette.
I’ve been asking myself the same question lately. I probably can’t tell the difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace or Chorus and Record, but there’s no denying the feeling you get from knowing that you’re turning those DA cranks or carbon Records.
If you can afford it, then go for the the DA.
For me it’s the same as shaving my legs - I just feel faster!
The GF has DA on her bike, and the front ring looks like a cross-cut saw–ferocious. I guess it is the shine/shape.
Never used an Ultegra STI but going from 105 to DA is a serious upgrade, pure luxury. I lucked out by getting a Soloist frame/fork off ebay and a lightly used DA gruppo from an owner of LBS (off his own show bike), again the DA shifting is so smooth compared to the 105 I had previously.
It is a thing of beauty, I’ve become more partial to Campy theses days - it is something about those carbon shifters.
The strange thing is that I used to get excited about cars, now if I see a Colnago C50 with Record I just about wet myself.
Lately it seems that Campy Chorus is an equal to Dura-Ace and Record is above all. I have a mix of Chorus and Record 9 speed on my road bike and Record 10 speed on my Tri bike and I love both setups. Besides being beautiful; I prefer the setup of Ergo Levers vs. STI as well as the less cluttered look due to the cable routing. The only piece I don’t like about Campy is the square taper BB, infact I have switched to FSA compacts on both my bikes and love 'em!
In all actuality, the high end groups from both shimano (ult & da) and Campy (Chorus and Record) are excelent groups and work well. Campy has better shifting and Shimano has a better BB and Crankset (IMO). But, replace Campy’s crank/bb with a FSA SL-K MegaExo Integrated Crankset (130mm or 110mm what ever suits your style) and you have an unbeatable groupo and save a few bucks (a whole bunch if your talking vs. Campy Carbon Cranks).
Oh yeah, for a flat lander a compact setup is great if your a spinner. I typically ride with my cadance in the 90-105 range.
I ride a 50-36 up front and an 11-21 in the rear. It is great to have the ability to shift and change my gearing by just one tooth. Makes finding the most comfortable gear for the terrain and effort easy. Now if you don’t spin like I am comfortable doing or you can ride like Norman you probably won’t like a compact, if not it may be worth a try.
I just made the switch to campy. Been a DA guy for as long as I have been riding a bike, now running chorus.
Have to say, the chorus is far better than DA was. I like the DA cranks and chainrings, but the shifting on campy is REALLY a lot better. I’ve heard that the centaur shifters are even more crisp than the carbon shifters.
I am SOLD on campy.
As far as DA vs Ultegra, I personally would never ride ultrgra shifters or chainrings. At least 9speed. Those things were crap. Especially the chainrings. I went through those things like butter.
Riding FSA carbon cranks and CR’s so we’ll see how those pan out, but so far I have no complaints.
Bsck in the 9 speed days I’d say you won’t notice a difference between Ultegra and DA with the exception of the feel of the ergo levers. (I can’t speak to the 10 speed) As a flatlander, I’d argue that there’s no real benefit to the 10 speed over 9. Hell, in general I think there’s very little benefit in 10 cogs in the back over 9. The problem is that the upgrade from 9 to 10 isn’t just about another cog.
After riding Campy (Centaur & Chorus for 'cross, Record for Road)for fifteen years, I recently rode Ultegra 10 spd for a month to become more familiar with the product. It’s a great gruppo: The shift levers are, in my opinion, ugly; however, they’re ergonomically very nice, and the reach from the drops is great. I always hated Shimano’s cable routing because it limited my hand positions, but the new levers provided me with plenty of places to put my paws (Oddly, I didn’t like the way my hands wrapped around the levers while standing, but that’s a very personal thing and speaks to the size of my hands more than anything). Campy still fits me better, but that’s just me.
The rear derailleur has an ever-so-slight hesitation when moving up and down the cogs - noticeably slower than Campy, but nothing to fret about. It’s just that Shimano seems to start shifting after you click the lever, while Campy seems to do so as you’re clicking - very small difference. The shifting up front is, I dare say, easier and quicker than my Record (I know, blasphemy!), but you give up trim settings for the very slight difference, and the difference isn’t enough to make me forget that. For the life of me, I can’t understand why Shimano continues to ignore this complaint (the lack of trim settings, I mean, but that’s a shifter issue actually).
The whole Crankset/Bottom Bracket thing really cracks me up. First of all, it’s no secret that the new Shimano bearings have met with many of the same durability problems that the Sweet cranks had many years ago (my Ultegra’s gave up the ghost within a week in wet weather). For anyone to say the quality of Shimano’s BB or bearings, new or Octalink, are better than Campy’s tells me they know not of which they speak (sorry, no offense). Campy obviously has the edge in quality here, and if your argument is about strength/stiffness, that doesn’t fly either because: a) you’re not strong enough to flex the cranks to notice the barely measurable difference, and b) the frame, tires, and wheels will deflect under load long before the cranks. Nothing wrong with the square taper design, ask Petacchi what he thinks of them. Oh, and with Campy, you’re cranks/BB aren’t outdated in a few years (I’ll probably eat my words later in the year when Campy comes out with their new design, but I believe it has more to do with bearings than interface). Having said that, I like the simplicity of the integrated Crank/BB, and think the quick shifting up front might have something to do with the stiffness of the chainrings. Still, I can’t get over the looks (although Ultegra looks better than Dura-Ace, IMO), and nothing looks as good as the Alloy Records. I’m not a big fan of the Marble look of Campy’s carbon cranks either.
The brake comparison is as it’s been for twenty years. Shimano’s grab better than Campy’s. However, for Campy, braking has always been more about trimming speed, while Shimano has opted for pure stopping power. Both will bring you to a stop quickly enough, and Shimano has certainly upgraded their brake’s modulation ability since I last rode them.
I won’t address wheelsets (much) because so many opt for aftermarket stuff, but hey Shimano…Yawn…while you’re adding trim setting to your front shifter, how about a little creativity in your wheels. And not creativity for the sake of being different, do something worth while! I know, I know, Dura-Ace tubeless is just around the corner. Blah, Blah. Record hubs are still the standard by which all others are compared.
In the end, all of the groups listed in this thread will do what they’re suppose to do…click, shift…click, shift. There’s nothing about any of them that will cause you to win or lose a race, neither offer enough weight difference to matter much at all, and all have become ridiculously expensive for the relative simplicity of what they do. It’s really a matter of personal preference. Just my opinions, but I see no reason to own either Record or Dura-Ace for anything other than the “Gucci Factor” both groups bring. Nothing wrong with that, just be honest with yourself before spending the money. The only place I see Campy having it all over Shimano is in time. That is, if you’re the type of person who expects to keep his/her bikes and components for more than five years, and you do a fair amount of training, than your obvious choice is to go with Campy. Their stuff lasts longer, is repairable, and they rarely outdate their designs - you can always upgrade (or downgrade, for that matter).
I enjoyed my month of Shimano - the stuff worked great - but, alas, my Kredo is now adorned with Record and I feel at home again. 
The problem is that the upgrade from 9 to 10 isn’t just about another cog.
Please elaborate.
JM–Thanks. That took a long time and was very helpful.