I noticed quite old article about tri position:
In many ways this sounds prettty good theory. Personal experience from last ironman… Riding very forward position, quite low, running sucked… Following days=> huge ache on quads… Nothing on hamstrings…
Last race on weekend, olympic distance, same position=> bike ok, running: hips locked, breathing issues…
Any ideas /thoughts based on the article?
Interesting, gonna read it now.
I have spoken to Björn Andersson about his (old) totally crazy position. The old race video from Norseman illustrates it very good. Super forward, 30-something cm drop etc. He has since went to the tunnel and realized that not only was that position very uncomfortable, it was also less aero. He has since gone to a more traditional TT-position and claims both better running as well as time savings on the bike. He wanted to reserve himself on the run-part though since he “never ran well”.
That doesn’t seem unreasonable. There is definitely a balance. to be acheived.
I tried the very forward position, and never got comfortable. neck hurt, shoulders hurt…
I set up my bike (P2SL) with the seapost in the rear facing, and the saddle slightly scooted forward, which seemed to work OK, but if I start doing tris again (possibly next year), I’ll most likely set up my seat even further back and raise the bars a bit more, because of the local topology.
Thank you for posting this link - what an interesting and thoughtful article.
I have always wondered why triathletes make bike position decisions in isolation from running. It’s not like my speed gives me any credibility, but it seems strange to me as an engineer (systems thinking!) that a decision to lower a bike’s cockpit or shorten the cranks would be discussed without any reference to what speed was gained or lost on the run.
Anyway, great read. There was a lot in that article about human motion and musculature that I had never considered before. It reminds me that the best part about this sport is that I never stop learning, even after 12 years doing this.
Of course you can be too low and forward, BUT, be careful not to hear that and then settle on a super upright position like:
When you could be riding like:
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So do you think Keinle is one of the “gold standards” for tri positions. I wonder what his crank length is. Looks like his hips are rolled pretty forward to keep the angle open. He needs a tririg front brake. I like that he still has mechanical shifting.
He also has his helmet rotated reward to stay close to his back.
I noticed quite old article about tri position:
http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/...ome-peoples-reality/
In many ways this sounds prettty good theory. Personal experience from last ironman… Riding very forward position, quite low, running sucked… Following days=> huge ache on quads… Nothing on hamstrings…
Last race on weekend, olympic distance, same position=> bike ok, running: hips locked, breathing issues…
Any ideas /thoughts based on the article?
Due to a crash and an a head/neck injury, I have adopted a more rearward position and getting by and riding just as fast as before. I can’t comment on running because it is reduced somewhat due to nerve damage and balance in my left leg. My open 10K time has dropped from 37-38 min to 41. So perhaps given that, my running off the bike is probably better relative to my current open 10K time.
I noticed quite old article about tri position:
http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/...ome-peoples-reality/
In many ways this sounds prettty good theory. Personal experience from last ironman… Riding very forward position, quite low, running sucked… Following days=> huge ache on quads… Nothing on hamstrings…
Last race on weekend, olympic distance, same position=> bike ok, running: hips locked, breathing issues…
Any ideas /thoughts based on the article?
Cannot agree more with you. Been too low an all the way forward for 3 years, quads and hips suffered, run sucked. Did retul, came up 15mm, slightly back and it is the world of difference for better, in my case.
That is quite misleading. Not everybody can run of Kienle’s position. He can, we know that, but interaction between bike position and running ability after riding in that position is highly individual. As one poster mentions above, I really don not understand either why are separating the two. Maybe because one is not ST stud unless he/she is crushing the bike, who cares about the run in triathlon.
All I’m sayin is, if you insist on your limitations, they will be yours to keep.
Actually Dave Luscan said that.
That is quite misleading. Not everybody can run of Kienle’s position. He can, we know that, but interaction between bike position and running ability after riding in that position is highly individual.
Actually that’s a loose quote from Richard Bachman in the book “Illusions.”
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Actually that’s a loose quote from Richard Bachman in the book “Illusions.”
I bet he stole it too =)
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That is quite misleading. Not everybody can run of Kienle’s position. He can, we know that, but interaction between bike position and running ability after riding in that position is highly individual. As one poster mentions above, I really don not understand either why are separating the two. Maybe because one is not ST stud unless he/she is crushing the bike, who cares about the run in triathlon.
I think the need for flexibility is overstated. Take the picture of Kienle and rotate the picture body 15 or 30 degrees, then set the bike and his heat facing forward… and your not far from the body position of many age groupers. It’s not about bending more and needing hamstring flexibility. IF you do that you hips will be too closed ot run well. Its about rotating. Yes you’ll need some neck flexibility and have to accept the fact that you won’t be able to see more than a 1/4-1/2 mile down the road most of the time. But why do you need to see all the way to the horizon anyway?
Yes, the rotation forward to get you lower & sadlle forward to keep hips open (+cranks) => been there/done that.
The thing that interests in this article is that it basically states that you shoudnt do that. You are not activating your glutes and your hamstringa and you will be locked from hips. This is first time that i read argumenta against of forward positions. But it makes sense. And n=1, it resonates my personal problems on bike/after…
I have a very low/forward TT position and if glutes being sore is any indication they activate more, not less.
Yes, the rotation forward to get you lower & sadlle forward to keep hips open (+cranks) => been there/done that.
The thing that interests in this article is that it basically states that you shoudnt do that. You are not activating your glutes and your hamstringa and you will be locked from hips. This is first time that i read argumenta against of forward positions. But it makes sense. And n=1, it resonates my personal problems on bike/after…
I’m the same way, I get sore glutes more on the tri bike, and it’s a pretty low/forward position.
Maybe I’ve found a sweet spot and with short cranks I’m pretty open. I will admit that I’m riding IO believe a shorter reach than Kienle. That what the Treks seem to put you into. I think my position looks similar to TO in that regard.
Again if I rotate forward and scoot slightly forward while going lower, how has my leg position relative to the bottom bracket changed? Why woudl I use any differnt muscle groups. It simply moved my BDC position further from 180 and TDC past 360. It seems like all I’ve done is made it harder to see up the road.
Either way, I didn’t notice any issues with my glutes at my last event. If anything my hip flexors get a little fatigued from the bike. I know that last 1/3 of the bike, I was focused on spinning smoother circles as my RPE was climbing to hold the same power.
Either way good discussion.
My experience is that I’m better off around 77 degrees and 12-13cm of drop than more forward and lower. I can usually turtle and get narrower in the slacker position, and I’m more comfortable.
I have a very low/forward TT position and if glutes being sore is any indication they activate more, not less.
Yes, the rotation forward to get you lower & sadlle forward to keep hips open (+cranks) => been there/done that.
The thing that interests in this article is that it basically states that you shoudnt do that. You are not activating your glutes and your hamstringa and you will be locked from hips. This is first time that i read argumenta against of forward positions. But it makes sense. And n=1, it resonates my personal problems on bike/after…
That used to be my thinking also but it could be they are sore from over extension due to the hip flexors pulling the pelvis down, anterior pelvic tilt.