Please let me know what you think of the positioning and especially if it looks like I’ve put the markings in the right place. (I’m positive about the hip location but unsure about the others).
I know that I could get the front end a little lower but I was counseled against that since the shortest race I will do is a 1/2 IM. All races will range from ridiculously flat to very small rolling hills. After a few comments I’ll let you know where I got this fit from, I don’t want the name to effect the comments.
How the heck do you get pictures to show up in the post? Does it require Internet Explorer?
Seat is too high, you look like Bjorn, can you ride like him?
Arms are a bit too stretched out in front, maybe as much as 2cm.
Have you ridden this setup yet? What about at race pace? My guess is that you would choke up the bars a bit, thus indicating yuo’re a bit overstretched.
Dropping a plumbline from ear to forearm looks OK to me so I’m norso sure that you’re stretched out. I agree that your seat could be a bit high. Measure your knee angle. It should be 150-155 degrees according to Slowman. If you have hamstring issues you might want to lower it a bit. I ride my bikes at around 147/148 degrees of knee bend. Came to that thru trial and error and it seems to work best for me.
I had my fitting done at EnduroSport in Toronto March/03 - and if I compare my setup to yours: I say your straight leg is too straight (saddle too high) and you could use a shorter stem to bring your elbows back a bit. If you lower the saddle then you would have to lower the stem as well to maintain the level of your back. The intersection at your hip looks bang on - but the intersection at your shoulder looks off.
I ride a Cervelo One (old One) and I am fitted to be quite compact when in the aero position. When my bent knee is closest to my elbow, there is only about 4 inches or so (about the width of my fist) of clearance.
For the most part I rarely climb out of the saddle, and last year I don’t remember ever hitting the pads. This year I have been playing with the hight of my aero bars - I wanted to get a little lower and so turned the stem upside down. This lowered the setup by about 2cm and I immediately noticed that I was coming very close and sometimes just bumping the pads when I stand up to climb. Mind you, I was testing on a level surface. I also tried it with a gallon paint can under the front wheel and that seemed to buy me a little extra space. When I can get it out on the road for some live testing I’ll have a better idea if it is a problem or not. I hope not, I would really like to get lower and use some of that extra flexibility I’ve been working on all winter.
not so sure about status of Cobb’s “back of hand never below elbow crease” rule. I’m sure he’s got reams of wind tunnel data backing him up but this hasn’t convinced Ullrich. Back of hand level w/ elbow crease or below IMO is more comfortable and “feels” more aggressive and more aero b/c high hands to me feels like a spoiler effect. Also, Cobb’s “rule” it seems is increasingly in conflict with the trend towards zero-rise aerobars, used with slightly cocked wrist.
Also, Cobb’s “rule” it seems is increasingly in conflict with the trend towards zero-rise aerobars, used with slightly cocked wrist.
The trend to zero rise aerobars is a matter of generating more power, not being more aerodynamic. If you are able to generate more power with the flatter postion it will offset the small increase in drag. I think it was on Cobb’s site somewhere but I couldn’t find it when I tried.
I got this position from John Cobbs store in Tyler. The actual fitting was done by Mike Majors with John Cobb coming in from time to time.
I agree with the saddle being a little too high. I measure knee angle to be 157 in this picture. Hip angle is 90. The shoulder angle, as the lines are drawn is 95 but the line could easily move either way.
I get some lower back pain occasionally, and I think it may have something to do with the saddle being too high - hamstring tightness. Possibly with the stem being too long.
This is essentially the same position that I had before going to get the bike fit, however Mike did a lot of work putting shims in my shoes to correct problems with my knees not tracking straight.
If you intend to make any adjustments yourself, I have one last bit of info to add to my critique. If that was my set up I would lower the saddle until my heal is level to the ground given the same crank orientation. If you were to lock your leg straight with the cranks in the same position - your heal should just drop below level - less than what it is above level now. That would mean dropping the saddle about 2+ cm.
my .02
I knew you were going to drop a big name on us - but that is surprising. Maybe the fitter was having a really off day.
Hey Lone racer…are you the really tall guy who came in for a fitting with Fiona just after a guy with a yellow softride powerwing? She sure does a thorough job of her fits.
Re: shaving, at least in my case it is clear that shaving would drop several pounds and several minutes off my time. For the rest of you hairless types it has much less effect.
The trend to zero rise aerobars is a matter of generating more power, not being more aerodynamic. If you are able to generate more power with the flatter postion it will offset the small increase in drag. I think it was on Cobb’s site somewhere but I couldn’t find it when I tried.
Power>Aero>Weight.
Nothing is free however… Cocking the wrists down allows you to use your upper body strength to help stabilize your lower back, use your core muscles, and generate more power. You spend more energy to do so though. For a pure TT, it makes sense, as it’s a stand alone race, and winning is more a matter of making the most power, than managing limited energy reserves (even long TT’s don’t fully exhaust glycogen stores). In a triathlon, it’s not quite so simple. Any added energy you spend, means less energy available for the run. Whether the trade off is worth it, depends on how long the race is, and how much ‘bang for the buck’ you get by using more of your upper body.
Scott wrote: Cocking the wrists down allows you to use your upper body strength to help stabilize your lower back, use your core muscles, and generate more power. You spend more energy to do so though. For a pure TT, it makes sense, as it’s a stand alone race, and winning is more a matter of making the most power, than managing limited energy reserves (even long TT’s don’t fully exhaust glycogen stores). In a triathlon, it’s not quite so simple.
Scott is smart, and knows what he is talking about. You must use a timer, and ride then run off the bike, comparing the times with each position. You can’t go by how it feels, feelings can fool you. The timer doesn’t lie.
I’m on the tall side but not really tall - nope it wasn’t me. The day Fiona did my fit, it was a slow day at Enduro, I was the only customer in the place. Fiona had just come back from the FIST camp and I suspect I was her first FIST fitting. She is very thorough and does a great job.
