If you didn’t answer yes to both of these, how do you reconcile that?
I have just learned that aparently very few people are in a situation where bringing in a second income could be perceived by the parents as being beneficial for the children. If you do it to get into a better school district or safer neighborhood…c’mon…don’t kid yourself. You know you are doing it because you value money more than your kids.
At least that’s what I’m told.
Can anyone share any experiences where the family brought in a second income to benefit their kids? Yours, a friends, a relatives? If not, then maybe Vitus is right and the people I know are just greedy and don’t love their kids.
Thanks for the input.
(EDIT: Honest input is appreciated. Some of my sarcasm seems to get lost through thise medium. Read further posts to understand my point)
*EDIT: I promised Vitus I would apologize for my mistake. I had thought he said that people who brought in a 2nd income valued money more than their children. *
** I asked him, in response to my apology, to respond to the position that I stated in the thread. He continually responded to a strawman that I did not make. He still refuses to comment on the following position other than “not many people are in it” as evidenced by “people who are not in it”
** Do you think it’s right to play debate tactics instead of giving an honest, straigtforward answer. You decide.
** Vitus’ actual quote:
** "My personal threshold is much lower. Maybe that’s because I value money less than you, or because I value having my kids raised at home more than you. In any event, what I’m sure of is that most families who choose to have both parents work don’t do so out of any dire financial necessity. They simply choose to do so. "
** The position he refuses to respond to:
**
"A lot of people (maybe not most, but a significant portion) take on second incomes because their alternatives place them into bad schools and dangerous neighborhoods. Regardless of what reasons other people may have for bringing in a second income, a lot of people do it specifically to give their children a better life (including family memebers and friends of mine). These people exist in significant numbers (though maybe more likely in higher cost of living regions). "
We moved from a paid-off house with taxes around $6500/year into a $240,000 mortgage and taxes north of $10,000, so we could be in a better school district (my wife teaches math in our old high school and was completely unwilling to let our kids go through there). And no, trading cost-for-cost would have gotten us a dump, if anything, in the new town. We probably couldn’t afford the new house without her second income. She teaches so that she can be off during summer vacation when the kids are out of school; she has an MSEE and used to be a computer programmer (at more than double the salary).
If you didn’t answer yes to both of these, how do you reconcile that?
Thanks for the input.
Barry,
Interesting question, I look forward to some of the answers.
Here are my answers:
Yes.
Yes, my wife gave up a $65,000/yr position at the University of MD to stay home and raise our youngest son.
We couldn’t reconcile it. Therefore, we decided if we had a child, one of us would be a full time parent. Unfortunately, since I make more than her I need to go to work every day.
If somebody truly loved money more than their kids, they would never have had kids. Having kids is like burning money.
Here are a couple of things that I have noticed. I am sure that the benefits of a stay at home parent out weigh the benefits of 2 incomes. But as in life, its not all black and white.
Back in the day when my daughter was born, the wife wanted to be a stay at home mom. She tried it for 9 months or so. She was miserable and we were broke. We cut as much as we could, but to maintain a reasonable quality of life was struggle. The financial stress coupled with the lack of adult interaction made her a complete whack job. So in the end, I am 100% sure that there was very little “quality time”.
It is my experience that kids that go to daycare develop social skills at a far earlier age. I have know a couple of families that have not gone the daycare route and their kids struggled mightily in elementary school as compared to the daycare kids.
You obviously discount it, but there is some truth in the fact that if you can afford it, you can “buy” your kid a better education by choosing your school district wisely.
In the end, my daughter did the daycare route. We never had an issue. During the school year, she would be at the daycare for about 1.5 hours before I would pick her up. I took her to school every day. During the summers, she looked forward to going to daycare because they always had fun activities for the kids, as opposed to sitting at home watching TV. They would put on talent shows and plays. I truly believe that those activities help transform her into the confident, outgoing child she is today.
So to post 2 questions and then say its either this or that is very short-sighted and just plain unfair.
Do you love your kids more than money?
—> I do love my kids more than money. However, I believe money is an important role in the happiness of a familly. You do not need to have money to be happy, but when you do not have to worry about putting food on the table, it does help tremendously.
Does one of you stay home to raise the kids?
—> No
Depending on how much the second income is, you may not necesarily bring that much more money (if you have to pay for daycare for example).
In my case, my wife wanted to take the whole year off (we are in Canada) and I said yes. Then after three months she told me she wanted to get back to work because even though she loves our daughter to death, she (her brain) was getting bored and I said yes . So in my case it was a question of making sure the mother was happy so the kid could be happy.
You’re asking because you really want to learn something, right? You’re not just trolling for arguments by asking a loaded question with false premises? You have an open mind on this, and you’re going to accept people’s answers as sincere and instructive? Oh, to answer, we love out kids more than money, and my wife (who has a graduate degree) stayed home to raise them. That is a luxury, though, that we could afford because we live where the cost of living is low, and we have easily lived on my earnings. A hefty portion of this is because we have been lucky. The choice is different for each family.
I don’t think you can look at it as either or. I think that if a couple has enough $ to make a choice, infants and toddlers benefit from having mom or dad home full-time. Once the kids are in school, I’m not sure that a stay at home parent is a better parent. A lot depends on the occupations of the parents and what the involvement of the stay at home parent would be. If a child is at school from8 until 3, there is not a lot of parenting to be done. Yes, it is important to volunteer for the PTA etc, but that doesn’t make you a better parent for your child. It is ideal if a parent can have a flexible schedule, maybe be there when the kids get home from school. When the kids get older, it does make a huge difference to have a parent around to monitor homework, and just to be around to see what the kids are up to. I also think that parents can make choices where they accept far less $ for the chance to participate in the lives of their children. I work in a public school and was able to take the morning off to see my 4th graders concert. Money, or even a video of the concert don’t measure up to being there in person for him. You have to be careful judging the decisions of other people.
Barry you should be a talk show host. You have a knack for taking very grey areas and coming up with questions that will try and make people look bad and support your point by forcing a simple yes or no answer. It is exactly this tactic that turns me off about many conservative talk show hosts…how do you reconcile that?
To answer your question.
Do you love your kids more than money?
No
2) Does one of you stay home to raise the kids?
No
**If you didn’t answer yes to both of these, how do you reconcile that? **
I reconcile it by stating that there are various levels in play here. One can love there kids more than money and make the choice to do something for themselves as well. There is a huge range here going from the families that truly are in it for the money only and could give a damn about their kids no matter how much money they make. To the groups that truly are forced into DI just to make it by.
Can anyone share any experiences where the family brought in a second income to benefit their kids?
No I can’t as I really don’t know of any situations like this although I’m sure they exist. I think in most cases today you have two people already working and then they decide to have kids. Rarely is it the case that only one is working and then they have kids and decide they need more income.
If not, then maybe Vitus is right and the people I know are just greedy and don’t love their kids.
Or maybe like everything else there just might be different options. Not sure why this has to be an “Either or” situation for you.
I want you to notice that I didn’t mention that your very framing of the question showed a breathtaking superficiality of thought. I’m so glad I could refrain.
My wife stopped working at a big 4 accounting firm as a manager CPA when we had our first kid 2 years ago. It hasn’t always been easy but we think we made the right decision - E
If you didn’t answer yes to both of these, how do you reconcile that? I’m indivisible.
So I realize this is aimed at 2 parent families, but what about those of us going alone? Do we suck as parents by default because we choose to provide for our children rather than living off welfare? Now I know I was suppose to be born an heiress, my taste in shoes and handbags is a clear indicator of this. Somehow that didn’t happen.
That’s a silly argument, Barry, and I think you know it. None of these tough social issues are black and white, but so many of you want to paint it that way (see the gun control argument by David in FL). I don’t believe there are too many two income families who really do love money more than their kids. But, they have evaluated their situation and decided what’s best for the children and the family as a whole.
In my situation, I’ve done both. I stayed home with my kids for the first 1.5 years, went back to work part-time, went back full-time (working from home) and am currently a SAHM (left a 6 figure job for this). In each stage of my kids’ lives, we decided what was best for our family and I don’t regret any of the decisions we’ve made. Both of our kids were in daycare for 4 - 6 hours a day for a few years (and then preschool at age 3) and they BENEFITTED TREMENDOUSLY from that experience. I know that’s hard for some of you to get your head around, but they did. They learned how to get along with other kids, they learned how to stand up for themselves, they learned that their Mom isn’t the only one who can provide for them, they got over their shyness, they had a Mom who was fully put-together when she picked them up at the end of the day and could therefore give them real quality attention in the afternoon and evening. There’s so much that goes into the decision about caring for your child, that you can’t possibly think that it’s as simple as you say in your first post.
By the way, my kids are now 8 and 12 and we’ve decided in the last year for me to stop working. This is an amazing time in their lives and we decided it was important for me to be here for them as much as possible. I’m coaching both of their sports teams at school and I’m as involved as I can be. I think more families would benefit from thinking about a mother or father cutting back on work when their kids are a bit older, rather than only doing it when they are young. (sorry for the hijack)
2) Does one of you stay home to raise the kids? - My wife dropped out of medical school to raise our kids. She finished many of her classes with honors and the sole reason she did it was to provide a better environment for them. Both of our careers would have left little time left over. She spends a lot of her time now volunteering at their schools.
Sure I’d like to double or triple our income. I think we reconciled in two ways:
1- Making more money mostly would have lead to more material possessions which doesn’t help a bit. I really could care less how much crap I can pack in the basement or what type of car I drive for example as long as it is safe, reliable, and friendly toward the environment.
2- The extra time we spend helping our kids with their education is time spent helping them help themselves. I don’t expect to be able to pay for college for my kids. They can do what I did…get scholarships and work through college. I think they will be much better off in the long run with that approach (although at the time they might not think so).
If you didn’t answer yes to both of these, how do you reconcile that?
Yes
No
better school district, roof over our heads, food in our bellies all that stuff…but just as important, my wife and I both work to show our daughter that she too can have a happy well adjusted family and a successful career at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive concepts.
Can anyone share any experiences where the family brought in a second income to benefit their kids?
I missed this in your first post, but I have an example. When my first daughter was born, I stayed home with her for 1.5 years and I fully intended to be a SAHM. However, after that period of time, we found that she was extremely shy and would almost always require me alone to take care of them. If Daddy tried to get milk for her, then she wouldn’t take it (and, it’s very difficult to reason with a 1 year old). When we met other kids in the park, she was almost frozen by her shyness. We had no family around with young children and none of my friends had kids either (most of my friend weren’t even married when we had kids). So, we decided that she needed to learn how to be around other kids and how to be comfortable with other adults. We decided a high quality day care was the best choice. I went back to work even though we didn’t need the money (I know many of you are going to doubt me on this one, but we truly didn’t need the money). I worked from home three days a week and went to the office twice a week. My daughter spent 4 - 6 hours in a day care each day. It was a hard decision. We were full of doubts. But, after seeing her adjustment and development at the daycare, I fully believe it was the right choice. She is now an outgoing, happy kid with lots and lots of friends. She makes friends easy and has no trouble going into new situations.
Ok, so now you can all tell me what a terrible person I am because I put my daughter in daycare. Go ahead - I’m ready for the attacks.
My wife and I both went 50% for 10 years while our kids were preschool - we shared the staying at home,
and I think I know where you are going with this. I notice a strong correlation between kids where both parents work out of the home, and those kids being literally buried under all the latest toys and gizmos. My kids friends knew exactly what they were going to get for Christmas, having negotiated their gifts with their parents.
I see kids today measuring their parents love by what gifts they get - you reap what you sow.
