Wanna make a smart person stupid? Talk politics with them. Reading the Condi Rice thing has only proved what ive thought for a long time, people are unable to talk sensibly about politics, in any form. I could tell you that there was a guy running for president who could solve all of our problems, but wasnt your political party, and most people would still not vote for him. On that previous thread, i enjoyed all the posts that went something like this: “The fault isnt with (insert either this administration or the last), it is 100% with (insert oppisate of what you inserted before)” Its completely idiotic, if these people where younger, you would tell them to stop acting like children, but because they are over 21, suddenly its a lofty discussion of politics. “Oh wow, you are so smart for talking politics, too bad youre so biased, you cant see the truth, if there even is any” Anyway, I put in cervelo because i think its a little like how people defend their bikes, the P3 being an example. (PS, i think the P3 is awesome, so dont kill me gerard) Just a little rant
Not to go “country” on us, but there was this old country song titled “politics, religion, and her”… obviously in reference to things people shouldn’t discuss/argue about with that singer… I try to keep that motto. It keeps me out of stupid people discussions.
Example:
I coach high school soccer right now and two of my kids’ needed to come late to practice one day b/c of a young democrats meeting. I said that was fine, seeing as kids being interested in something besided TV and boys is a good thing IMO.
So they asked what I “was”? I said I’m a person, not a party. They didn’t get it. Then one went on a “I hate Bush” rant. So I asked why? She said b/c he “sucks”. She then went on to say she didn’t hate Republicans, just President Bush. Very interesting, and rather disturbing. I walked away b/c it’s not worth it.
“I hate Bush rant…because he sucks”
I definetly get this vibe from a lot of people of all ages. Politics isn’t what it once was (Thank freakin goodness), and it certainly is changing now. People no longer care about “issues” or “problems” they care about voting in politicians like they put people on TRL. Just scream really loud and tell people what they want to hear.
-The next greatest signiture…in a minute…
I haven’t even read it. I knew better. For some reason repub’s feel like they can’t say anything positive about dem’s and of course, vice versa.
It’s the same with Rotor/Power cranks. I skip those now, too.
I have the same problem(I don’t like being categorized based on my opinions). My sensibilities are libertarian more than anything else. But we like to belong, it makes us feel strong, and right. If I am a Democrat(or Republican), I merely have to say that, and then I have carte blanche to spout any of my party’s opinions without further need for discussion. This has the added benefit of giving me a large group to blame for virtually all of the world’s problems. (Wouldn’t it be nice if both parties worked together?!?)
The thing that bothers me the most is that when inteliigent people are having an intelligent discussion, dare I say argument(in the dialectic sense of the word), there should be the possibility that one person’s opinion can be swayed based on their opponent presenting a coherent logical argument. This is rarely the case.
What I have found here, and everywhere else in life, is that if somebody disagrees with you, but has absolutely no logical basis for their counter-opinion, they will resort to one of the following:
- Character assassination - they’ll just attack you personally
- They will simply disallow your facts because their party says that they are false.
- They will simply ignore any and all arguments that disagree with their viewpoint.
I try to stay out of the political threads these days because I have yet to see anybody swayed to my point of view. They usually just call me an acid-dropping whale-hugger(if I’m ranting against SUV’s) or jack-booted Republican Nazi(if I’m arguing in support of the war), or they call me an asshole and ignore me.
Remember, it’s easier to belong than to stand alone, and it’s easier to have somebody tell you what to think than to form your own opinions.
There is a lot of truth to this. Perhaps the disparity in opinions had to do with the diversity of experience, lifestyles, education, etc.
In any case, it is interesting to read all the insights. Most Slowtwitchers put a good measure of thought into their posts on a given thread. One thing for sure, we are an interesting group of people- which makes this forum nice.
I have to disagree with you on this analysis. Plenty of posts are along the lines you describe, but many of them are thoughtful on both sides. Overall, the quality of the discussion is far superior to what you get from the talking heads on cable and better than I have really seen anywhere else.
Yeah, I am tired of the powercranks threads too. I skip those as well. Sorry Frank.
I agree. Politics has become a made-for-TV event w/ popularity, not issues, being the most important factor.
Remember in the '00 election, many people tore down Bush b/c of his public speaking. Personally, public speaking ability is not the factor I base my vote on. Some very bright people have difficulty with this. Think back to when we actually had a president nicknamed “Silent Cal” (Calvin Cooldige). He would have no chance these days.
Also, most people never have the experience of having the entire world focus on what they are saying. I would think this is an acceptable time to be a little nervous and misspeak once or twice. Of course, since then that argument has gone away as Bush has gotten more experience with it.
The biggest problem with our “free” political system is that it is not truly free and open. If you are not afiliated with either major party then you have zero chance of being elected to anything. When my mother ran for city councilmember of our 40,000 person municipality she was asked everyday what party she belonged too. There were no real issues where is mattered!
We used to have several political parties during the founding stages of our nation. Many other free societies have several political parties. I think this is better than having 2 dominant parties.
If you really break down the Reps and Dems, they are actually more similar than dissimilar. They overlap on many issues. They only really differ on war, abortion, taxes. Both paties spend, spend, spend our tax money in a wasteful way. Reps try to act like they don’t, Dems just say they are giving it to the poor. Neither has any “self-control”.
Not that I would support any of the minor-party candidates like Ralph Nader. But the ability of someone with common sense, who is not affiliated with one of the major parties , to get elected to a high political office is zero. This is unfortunate. What we have in this country is two major money raising machines who groom career politicians to go run our country. Career politicians who pretty much only know how to get elected to office, not necessarily do the correct things to run this nation.
I have to admit a lot of this is true. I am part of the Republican base. I have pushed all my life to get Republican control of Congress and the Whitehouse. When we get it, we get the Farm bill, the Medicare bill, the Education bill and, soon, the Highway bill. These are all budget busting, pork laden disasters, especially the Medicare bill. Turns out that Republicans don’t hate big government so long as they are in charge of it. Very discouraging.
You won’t see a commentary like this on TV typically, because they are bipartisan disasters for the most part. No horse race, no dispute, no story. Substance doesn’t make a story, contraversy does.
So instead we have Bush is a dope, Bush is a liar, Bush is to blame for 9/11, Bush is hiding things, blah, blah, blah. This forum is better than that with most posts, so I come here to vent on occasion.
Art wrote: "Yeah, I am tired of the powercranks threads too. I skip those as well. Sorry Frank. "
I don’t really care Art. However, many of these PC discussions really drift off PC’s pretty quickly and end up having nothing to do with PC’s and RC’s. The one going on now is a great example. If one is interested in exercise physiology it could be an interesting thread/debate. PC’s or RC’s haven’t been mentioned in 100 posts or so. One problem with these threads is one can’t always know what they are about based upon the title.
Frank
I defiately agree… I think a big part of that is how people are campaining and hwo they are being covered. I really don’t know what a lot of these guys stand for… I have this feelign that I am voting for who I like less and not becuae they stand for what I believe in
sigh
Indeed, it seems like we’ve been electing the lesser of two evils for quite some time now.
I would argue that when candidates start running negative ad campaigns, they are encouraging exactly that rationale. It’s pretty sad when a political candidate has so little good to say on his own behalf that the best he can come up with is bashing his opponent.
I think that Colin Powell set an interesting precedent, or at least brought it to light. Many people who might actually be very good politicians refuse to subject their families to the kind of scrutiny and inevitable slandererous allegations that running for office entail.
I find most of the threads interesting. I think you learn more about the people writing the post than the topic itself.
I also think everyone has their issues, and politics, religion, and any topic where an opinion is given somehow brings those issues to light. A lot of people seem to be tied to their opinions and have internalized them to such a degree that to suggest that someone is incorrect, or even slightly off, is a direct assault on their person.
Plus, the anonymity (for the most part) of the forums let people go off in ways they probably never would in person.
Fun and interesting regardless.