And you blame the Police for this?
By and large, I’ve had good luck with the officers I’ve dealt with. Mostly noise complaints, stuff like that. None of these were emergencies.
I’ve had more bad luck with park police than regular police. Once we were out walking on a local trail and a park ranger pulled up. His first words were “I could write you a ticket right now…”, because the park had “closed” at dusk. His tone and method of dealing with us left us annoyed and feeling negative. He could have simply said “Hey folks, did you know the park closes at dusk?” instead. Shrug.
Nope not at all. In fact I feel for the police agency in this reguard as they seem to have been relegated, at least in part, to another branch of revenue collection rather than criminal enforcement.
I however blame the police for not having better training focused on how to deal with general interpersonal dynamics and better screening to try and weed out the power hungry assholes.
I definitely see your point about people are typically confronted with new officers that haven’t yet been promoted or simply bad ones that never will be promoted. Most of my dealings with upper level officers, save one, have been positive. At lower levels it’s been about a 50/50 shot.
~Matt
** Attitudes like Tibbs (“I myself despise police”), are pretty common, and if you had a job, where everyone had that attitude towards you, you might just turn into a dickhead as well. **
It never occured to you that maybe the reason Tibbs and a lot of people despise cops is because so many cops are dickheads to start with, I guess.
The problem is with the police culture, frankly. Police more and more have adopted a confrontational attitude as their default position. They see themselves as brave soldiers fighting valiantly to maintain order, all the while placing themselves at grave personal risk. Every member of the public is a deadly threat until proven otherwise. And nobody understands them, poor poor babies.
Your various justifications are lame, too. Police in Seattle are too understaffed and too busy responding to one call after another to respond to a burglary? Excuse me? What kind of calls are they responding to, one after the other? And do you think they somehow still manage to have enough manpower and enough time to enforce traffic infractions? I bet you they do.
As for the “don’t hate the players, hate the game” justification of cops and traffic ticket quotas . . . I’m not even sure why you think that’s a defense, but it isn’t even entirely accurate.
Yep, car break-ins are really common, sorry it happened to you, but you got to admit, it’s not too bright to leave valuable stuff in your car in plain view.
This sort of stuff happens all the time at the Y I go to. Women leave their purses on the front seat. THe punks know people are going to be in there for a while - smash, grab, and gone. That’s life.
Not all cops are creeps. I was on my way to a race a couple of weeks ago - I was a bit late and doing 75-80 most of the way. I saw a cop car pulled over with his lights on - figured he was busy, slowed down to 70 or so and went by.
Turns out he had just stopped to move some junk off the road, pulled me over. Explained the main reason was that I didn’t move over one lane like I should have, but he also clocked me speeding.
Ended up giving me 5 warnings, he could have written about $500 bucks worth of tickets. When he found out we were on our way to a race he said " Oh, am I holding you up? I’ll have you on your way in a minute" Really a nice decent guy.
So, good cops, bad cops, just like everybody else.
(not replying specifically to #5, you were the last post)
Speed enforcement is a critical element of providing public safety. Crumple zones, airbags, seatbelts all help reduce injuries in a traffic accident, but the best way to prevent tragic injuries or loss of life is to prevent accidents in the first place. Ask anybody in the biz, speed is one of the predominant factors in a MVA.
Also, traffic stops net more than just a hundred bucks for the local government. Drunks speed, dopers speed, people with FTA’s (failure to appear) speed, level III’s who haven’t checked in speed, etc.
Brett
I think this is now a law in most major states based more around the insurance than the actual license. For the most part if you go to court with license and insurance showing you had or valid of both the charges are dropped. If not, it’s 500$.
It does seem to me that in today’s day and age, especially with computers in cop cars that verifying valid license and insurance on a vehicle should be a pretty easy thing to implement. However I’m also guessing it’s not implemented because there are likely cases where the judge says “Screw you, you’re supposed to have that stuff on you” And people with valid insurance and license end up paying at least part of the fine.
~Matt
The problem is with the police culture, frankly. Police more and more have adopted a confrontational attitude as their default position. They see themselves as brave soldiers fighting valiantly to maintain order, all the while placing themselves at grave personal risk. Every member of the public is a deadly threat until proven otherwise. And nobody understands them, poor poor babies.
Well, it is obvious that you don’t understand it or them, and I can guarantee you than none, not a single solitary Police Officer wants your pity or needs it. Here are some numbers for you, maybe they will help you understand why the culture is what it is, but I doubt it:
Crime fighting has taken its toll. Since the first recorded police death in 1792, there have been more than 17,900 law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty . Currently, there are 17,912 names engraved on the walls of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial.
A total of 1,649 law enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past 10 years, an average of one death every 53 hours or 165 per year. There were 145 law enforcement officers killed in 2006.
On average, more than 56,000 law enforcement officers are assaulted each year, resulting in over 16,000 injuries.
The 1970s were the deadliest decade in law enforcement history, when a total of 2,275 officers died, or an average of 275 each year. The deadliest year in law enforcement history was 1930, when 279 officers were killed. That figure dropped dramatically in the 1990s, to an average of 159 per year.
The deadliest day in law enforcement history was September 11, 2001, when 72 officers were killed while responding to the terrorist attacks on America.
Again not bashing police and not saying that it’s an easy job, but a couple things. Police know full well, up front, that these are the statistics and that this is part of the job. How or why do these statistics allow someone to be an ass? To make matters worse how is it that some, probably most, officers do their job quite well and deal with most situations rationally and civilly , but others can not? They all have the same job.
I don’t think the “Job is tough” excuse washes as a reason to treat others like crap or to excise your power. LOTS of jobs are stressful and some aren’t all that safe, although being a police officer has it’s unique threats.
~Matt
Well, it is obvious that you don’t understand it or them
Well, if I don’t understand them, what with my POST certification and two years of experience as a sworn LEO, odds are that the general public doesn’t, either. Maybe the problem isn’t with the general public.
I doubt that they do, but the fact of the matter is that the legislature will not change the law because speeding tickets and safety stops are revenue generators and getting on a bike and patrolling a neighborhood, getting involved in the community and creating relationships there is not. However the latter has a greater impact on the crimes that matter most to the community. And yes I realize that it would cost more and likely take more police to restart these types of patrols.
I know that the “community policing” theory looks and sounds really good on paper, and personally I like it, but I think the jury is still out on its effectiveness. The ironic thing is, that in most places, violent crime and the stuff that most people are worried about is down, especially when measured per capita. I’m not advocating reduction in policing or anything like that, I just think it goes to show how people want to feel safer even though the crime rate is dropping.
Bernie
I think the jury is still out on its effectiveness.
I don’t know about that, but if the jury is out as to its effectiveness in preventing crime, it’s still worth it if it reminds cops that they are part of the community they’re supposed to be serving, and not an occupying force.
** don’t know about that, but if the jury is out as to its effectiveness in preventing crime, it’s still worth it if it reminds cops that they are part of the community they’re supposed to be serving, and not an occupying force.**
Vitus,
No doubt. In my experience though, and back to the beginning of this thread, the kind of cops who embrace community policing efforts are likely not the ones that anyone is going to have a problem with. Certainly not the ones we were discussing eariler.
Quite frankly, the “occupying force” attitude disgusts me.
Bernie
the kind of cops who embrace community policing efforts are likely not the ones that anyone is going to have a problem with.
IMO, the problem isn’t an individual thing. Sure, as some have said, there are always going to be jerks, and there are always going to be great guys, and that’s true of any group of people. The problem now, again imo, is a cultural mindset among police in general. And that kind of mindset can be changed, and adopting community policing at the departmental level seems like an effective way of doing that.
Well, if I don’t understand them, what with my POST certification and two years of experience as a sworn LEO, odds are that the general public doesn’t, either. Maybe the problem isn’t with the general public.
Then you obviously have a personal issue with the department, or those you worked with that you need to work out. In my many more than two years of experience I have had a vastly different experience than you have. Perhaps you are painting with too broad a brush.
Then you obviously have a personal issue with the department, or those you worked with that you need to work out.
“Obviously,” eh? That’s the second time you’ve made a mistake about something you think is “obvious.” Your instincts suck.
I don’t have a personal issue with the department I worked for, or with anyone in that department. In fact, I think it remains one of the few agencies with a respectable attitude. I’d still be working for them if my schedule permitted it.
But hey, you can continue proving my point for me: When faced with criticism, go on the attack. All too typical these days.
Again not bashing police and not saying that it’s an easy job, but a couple things. Police know full well, up front, that these are the statistics and that this is part of the job. How or why do these statistics allow someone to be an ass? To make matters worse how is it that some, probably most, officers do their job quite well and deal with most situations rationally and civilly , but others can not? They all have the same job.
I don’t think the “Job is tough” excuse washes as a reason to treat others like crap or to excise your power. LOTS of jobs are stressful and some aren’t all that safe, although being a police officer has it’s unique threats.
I don’t think that the ‘‘job is tough’’ is an excuse nor do I think anyone has used it as one. There are assholes in every profession, and police work often times brings out the worst in some people. I posted those stats because Vitus made a comment about cops approaching every situation as a confrentation, not as an excuse for poor behavior or job performance.
But we are talking about jobs where the entry level pay, in a lot of areas, is barely above the living wage. Most departments have lowered their standards for applicants in the last 10 years. Almost every community needs more Police Officers, but very few are willing to a pay a wage that attracts the best and the brightest. Should Police Officers be screened better? Absolutely. Should their training be better? Absolutely. But when departments are lowering the standards to get bodies on the street because they are not getting enough qualified applicants, and departments are rehiring retired officers to get additional experience on the streets, qualifcations and training go out the window pretty fast. These are the unfortunate facts of the real world.
BWAAHAAHAAAAHAA! Please, say want you want, I could give two shits if you ever spent two seconds on the job. I suggest you were painting those who are patrolling the streets with too broad of a brush and you respond with ‘‘Your instincts suck.’’ Who do you think went on the attack again? I think we are all better off that you had a conflict in your schedule.
I suggest you were painting those who are patrolling the streets with too broad of a brush and you respond with ‘‘Your instincts suck.’’
Your reading comprehension sucks more than your instincts do, Bruce. How do you manage your ticket book with such poor reading skills?
Two whole years… as what, a reserve? I don’t mean to insult, but you don’t have any idea what you are talking about. I wasn’t going to join this thread, because I really don’t care to counter the cop bashers. And we certainly at times deserve the bashing. But, you clearly have no grasp on the realities of modern policing. Ignorance has never stopped you from pontificating before, and your posts in this thread are no exception.