I’ve seen a couple of references to “too steep” in threads recently (presumably the references were in terms of saddle position in relation to bb), but I am unsure as to what too steep really means. How do you define it? If it’s not subject to an exact definition, then what sorts of things do you take into account to determine if someone set up too steep? By the way, Slowman made the two references that stick out most in my mind.
too steep is when you are going slower
=)
either because your hip angle is too open to make optimal power or you are getting so low and steep that your drag is going back up
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Is it really possible to get your hip angle too open on a production tri bike (assuming that it’s an appropriate sized frame)?
Sure. Especially on a P3 or Kueen-K or Cd0.1. Those are the ones that come to mind as bikes you can get REALLY steep on.
But basically, too steep is the same as too shallow. It’s not your optimum. For some too steep might be 78, for others, 80, still for others, 83. Generally, on the smaller bikes, you’ll see it more often, just because you can get the saddle further forward (degree-wise) with the same distance moved on the rails. That’s part of how Natascha Badmann is able to ride so steep. I don’t think you’d find any pro over 6’ that could get as steep as she is. Jurgen Zack was the king of super steep, but that’s probably why he liked his softrides. I don’t think he’d be able to ride any custom bike as steep as he would like.
For example, I could ride steeper on plenty of the bikes that would fit me, but I wouldn’t like it. It’s not like the right position for everyone is as far forward on the rails a saddle will go.
Tribikes are not so different as roadbikes. 73deg is not right for everyone on a roadbike, but it seems to be a good center of the bell curve. Same with tribikes. 79deg seems to be the equivalent of 73deg. Not right for everyone, but a reasonable “center point” of the bell curve (in my experience). Of course that comes with all the caveats, biases, etc, etc.
Thanks for the input. I’ve been riding a 53cm P3SL with a PD Tri Stryke all the way forward on the rails (with the seat post head in the forward position and a 120mm stem) for almost two years, and it’s very comfortable, but perhaps not optimal. I am thinking of tinkering around with shorter stems and sliding the saddle back some; I’ll see what the power numbers look like in various iterations of my position.
Too steep for me is steeper than approx 77 (saddle 1.5 cm behind BB).
Makes me ride much slower uphill. (Don’t ask me why - I only know this by real experience).
Aside from power:drag ratios, too steep could also be the point at which fore-aft weight distribution unacceptably compromises stability.