Pedophilia by any other name

The Coffee Shop
2

Disturbing.

So many warning signs and “don’t do’s” committed by the teacher/coach (rides home, text messages, etc).

IMO, dad was too diplomatic in this situation. a 38yo is messing with a 16yo girl. Some guys only stand one form of communication.

Also strange that the husband/wife almost look like older brother and younger sister.

unfortunate situation. I can’t blame the 16yo for being infatuated with a teacher/coach (it happens). I can blame the 38yo male for accepting the relationship with a 16yo girl. Embarrassing.

3

I’m really really sick of parents saying “we didn’t have any choice” when describing their crappy parenting choices. I’m not sure how they didn’t have a choice to not sign a consent form for their 16 year old daughter to marry her 40 year old track coach. It’s like a magnified version of parents who won’t make their kids back away from the TV or eat healthy because the kids might be mad at them.

4

The only thing I was thinking was perhaps they thought if they didn’t sign the form that their daughter would elope with the guy. But, that same mentality features parents that allow their kids (and other kids) to party and have sex at their house because if they didn’t, they might/probably be doing it elsewhere.

5

I was having this discussion with someone I attended HS with just the other day. No fewer than 6 male teachers/coaches (softball, track, cross country) were involved with students during my junior/senior year. 3 of them actually left their wives and married their former player/student when the girls graduated. I know this because they are still married. I see one couple at the gym I teach at every morning. She is now a pretty hot 40 year old and she’s still with her former coach who now is in his mid-60’s.

One of the other coaches got the captain of the pep squad pregnant and footed the bill for her abortion. It’s odd to think about in retrospect since it seemed like the entire junior class knew but no one ever said anything to the administration.

I’m definitely not condoning this type of behavior…just pointing out that it’s nothing new.

6

“The only thing I was thinking was perhaps they thought if they didn’t sign the form that their daughter would elope with the guy”

Maybe so, but I don’t think there’s any State where you can get a mariage license at 16 without parental consent. So they would elope and do what, exactly? Seems like you could easily say “We will not condone a marriage betwen a 40 year-old and our 16 year old daughter. If you insist on keeping up this relationship, we will not disown you or turn you away, but we will not allow your pedophile coach in our house or sign any legal document condoning this marriage. If you still want this when you are of legal age, then so be it.”

Then it seems like you’d have a pretty good case to take to the cops to investigate this guy for statutory rape, depending on when you can show that they started having a physical relationship.

7

Hey, who knows, this might just be one of those relationships that make it…There is a famous triathlete of my day, that married his student(Ironman champion), and they are still happily married today. Great couple and happy family…Because of/inspite of, who knows. Looking at statists of marrige, and the very high rate of divorce, doesn’t seem like the old formula of marrige is working these days…A 150 years ago, she would be approaching spinster status if she wasn’t married in her teens, and 2000 years ago she would have at least 2 or 3 kids by now…It’s more about current societal morals than anything I guess, I’m certainly no expert on what will make a relationship last a lifetime…I wish them luck, with all the negative crap surrounding them, looks like they will need it… In Many 3rd world countries, this sort of thing is common today. I’m guessing that our predominately religous society has something to do with accepted morals of the day, although from the article, both had pastors, so may be no connection there either…I don’t have a daughter, so I don’t have as much stake emotionally as someone who might. If I did, I guess I would just want her to have a happy, fullfilling life. But beyond bringing her up as best I could, I think at some point you just lose them to the world, and hope that you gave them the tools to make good choices…

8

Hey, who knows, this might just be one of those relationships that make it…

That’s completely beside the point. You’ve probably dated several people with whom you could “make it”, but that doesn’t make it the right decision by any measure, beyond what her little 16-year old heart desires, and what his creepy immature mind craves at the moment. Not being a parent myself, it’s easy for me to say, but I agree with slowguy - no one held a gun to their heads. They failed her in a big way, and I’ll bet they’re already regretting the decision.

9

You’ve probably dated several people with whom you could “make it”, but that doesn’t make it the right decision by any measure, ]]]

You are absolutly right, I’ve dated a lot that I didn’t make it with, and some were not the right decision in retrospect…But you know the old hindsight axiom, and I just moved on quietly to the next phase…If things don’t work out for them, they too will have to move on…Not too many of us hit the lottery on the first ticket in relationships, at least I don’t know anyone who has…You paint a picture of both them like you actually know them, do you??? I have no idea what is in her little heart, or his mind…

10

"I have no idea what is in her little heart, or his mind… "

Nobody knows what’s in their hearts or minds, but we do know that we have laws to protect 16 year olds because we know that they are not mature enough to avoid being taken advatnage of adult predators, and we know that the parents, who are in as good a spot as anyone to know what’s going on, were not comfortable with the coaches intentions.

11

You paint a picture of both them like you actually know them, do you???

As well as I need to to make a rational judgement. He leveraged his position as a mentor to gain access to a child, engaged in inappropriate behavior and led - or allowed - her to believe that a romantic relationship between the them was a good idea, when it was clearly illegal and unethical. He is a man of poor character and judgement, and a 16-year old love-struck girl is in no position to see him for what he is - unlike, say, her parents. By signing off, they gave their expressed consent to this relationship. Pedophile wins, girl and parents lose, end of story.

12

When I was in high school, the coach of a rival school’s cross country skiing program lost his job, wife, respect, kids, and nearly his life over a relationship with a 16-year-old girl on his team. Apparently most of the girls on the team knew that the student and coach were having a sexual relationship but word didn’t get out until way after the season was over. Even the assistant coach knew - the girl’s parents were the only ones who were “in the dark.” In the end, her dad confronted the coach and threatened to kill him if he didn’t leave town. There was talk of love and him wanting to divorce his wife for her blah blah blah. In the end, the guy got run out of town on a rail and the girl moved on, but 15 years later that coach is still a pariah. His skiers were incredible, and he can’t get a coaching OR teaching job.

It’s just like “Election.”

13

It is not difficult to me to think that a few examples could exist of incest couples staying together for decades or a relationship of a 21yo and an 8yo that lasts for a long time. I don’t think these are examples should be used to illustrate the point that “it’s okay”, like the xamples are being used throughout this thread.

Speaking from the pespective of a former young, athletic teacher, and a former coach of a girl’s sport (softball for 2 years) … I think there is something DRASTICALLY wrong with this 38yo guy. We’ve talked about what “type” of 22yo loser hits on 15yo high school chicks in another thread. The situation involving a 38yo guy is DRAMATICALLY more severe. What type of 38yo man looks at a 16yo girl (actually, the girl would have been much younger when they would have first engaged in inappropriate behavior, they’re married at 16) and sees anything but a student, someone’s daughter, a “younger sister” type, etc? We’re not talking about a 23yo teacher that gets involved with an 17yo senior here. We’re talking 38yo and 16yo.

We can all name teachers who have married former students. One of my good teaching/coachng buddies has a solid relationship with a former student (with parental approval), etc. But, having relationships with former students is drastically different than getting involved with them when they are 14 and/or marrying them when they are 16, while you are 22 years older than them.

This situation, IMO, is VERY serious.

14

Maybe so, but I don’t think there’s any State where you can get a mariage license at 16 without parental consent. So they would elope and do what, exactly.

In Maryland a 16 year old can marry without parental consent if she is pregnant. All she needs is a certification from an MD. I find that to be pretty wild but I know of a young couple who went this route rather than get an abortion or remain apart. The husband joined the air force the day he turned 18 and they have a beautiful daughter who is now 5 years old. The parents were against it every step of the way but powerless to stop it.

15

monty, her started with her when she was 14.

14?

16

Disclaimer: At different times in my life I have been the 17yo brother of a 14yo girl (and all her friends), a 29yo teacher of 14yo’s, a 29yo coach of 15yo girls, etc.

14yo’s get infatuated (not in love with) essentially anyone of influence that is above their age. They write about them in their journals, make murals/shrines of them in their lockers, talk about how dreamy they are (even if they’re just average or below compared to others their age), etc. Every two years or so a new coach/teacher gets hired and is the talk of all the girls. Some of them handle it fine, some of them don’t. The one’s that don’yt usually lose their career, and for good reason.

It takes a special kind of sick-prick to take advantage of that infatuation. It’s one thng to date a former student once that student is out of school. It’s a completely different thing to start “working it” when they’re 14yo and then “lock it up” when they’re 16. IMO, if a 36yo REALLY loved a 14yo girl he would tell her they can’t have a relationship because thast’s not what’s best for the girl. That’s LOVE.

What I would do to this prick if it were my daughter is something that makes me feel very unChristian.

A lot of people can teach/coach, obviously not every one should.

17

n Maryland a 16 year old can marry without parental consent if she is pregnant.

But 18 to 16 may actually escape the statutory rape laws in alot of states. Not to mention a 18-16 relationship would be very hard to muster support against. IOW if she was pregnant the guy has obviously had sex with her and thus has probably broken the statutory rape laws of the home state in the home state.

For the life of me I can’t understand why in this case the parents didn’t take this “consent form” directly to the school board as proof of what was happening and have the freak fired on the spot.

I also have NOOOOooooo clue as to what kind of dumbass parents would allow a child to A) ride home with the coach B) keep her cell phone if it was being used for such activity C) Same for the E-mail and D) leave her in the same school. Really WTF!?

~Matt

18

The percentage of divorces increases dramatically as the age of those involved in it goes down, for numerous reasons. Granted the “Success Rate” of marriages under optimal conditions is pretty low, but the number is far lower for those getting married at young ages.

A 150 years ago, she would be approaching spinster status if she wasn’t married in her teens

150 years ago the average lifespan was closer to 45 rather than 75. Women and most men were not educated to the degree they are to day and or expected to enter the work force. 2000 years ago the lifespan was shorter and most of life was centered around propagating the species and mere survival, not “Quality of life”.

I’m certainly no expert on what will make a relationship last a lifetime.

I’m certainly not either but I have to believe I’m far closer to “Expert” status than a 16 year old.

In Many 3rd world countries, this sort of thing is common today.

See also above, but in many 3rd world countries they are STILL living mostly in a mode of survival and propagation. You simply can’t mix to schools of thought and expect a “Good outcome”. In that same 3rd world country you likely have conditions that are conducive to staying married and having a successful marriage as well. Not to mention that in many of these “3rd world countries” divorce is not an option.

I’m guessing that our predominately religous society has something to do with accepted morals of the day,

I’m not denying that religion might play a role here, however it’s not the predominant reason our society has outlawed and or marginalized such behaviors. The fact is that our society is not raising our children to be at a maturity level at 16 that they were forced to 150yrs ago and or are in 3rd world countries. We are raising our children to succeed at a higher level.

If I did, I guess I would just want her to have a happy, fullfilling life.

As does any parent. The problem is that the likelihood of any of the above happening when a 16 year old that was raised in the US or pretty much any Westernized society is really pretty low. The percentage of abuse, poverty, divorce etc etc is typically much higher in these types of marriages.

I don’t have a daughter, so I don’t have as much stake emotionally as someone who might.

Well I do, and in fact am going thru an identical situation right now with her. Except the guy is 21 and she’s not yet 16. Point is pretty simple. As I explained it to my daughter. There are “Stages” in life. Once you cross these stages you typically don’t go back. IMHO a 21 year old and a 15 year old are at different stages in life. For the most part a 21 year old, even more so for a 38 year old, will not want to live a 15-16yr olds life. If they want to they really only have a couple of reasons for doing so. Either A) they are there merely to use you and or control you or B) they simply have not matured and or moved on in life. In the case of “A” is that what you want to happen and in the case of “B” do you really want to be in a relationship with someone whom is immature? And do you want to get stuck there with them when you reach that age?

As another poster stated, it’s very easy for older men to “prey” on young girls. Almost ever girl I’ve every known from Middle school to present goes “Week Kneed” at the sight of an “older” not “Old” male from the ages of 12-17. Guy’s from 19-22 look for 14-17 year olds for a “Quick score” and guys older than that are looking for a young girl they can control.

Sorry but simply hooping for the best is not the proper road to go in these situations as the odds are against it.

~Matt

19

**guys older than that are looking for a young girl they can control. **

Factor in the coach/athlete aspect, and I worry about the situation when she decides she wants to “do her own thing”, whether it be athletics or in her daily life. I don’t see that liberation going very well.

Right now, having a 14-16yo infatuated with him likely makes him feel young gain, like a superstar, etc. Her view of him may change greatly when she turns 20.

I admit they could be the exception, but I speak of generalities/averages in these discussions.

20

I admit they could be the exception, but I speak of generalities/averages in these discussions.

Agreed, and the “Averages” in these cases are not good. No way in hell do I sign consent papers. If they figure out a way around me and get it done anyway that’s one thing, but I’m not walking away without a fight.

~Matt