Peaked or fit?

Triathlon Forum
1

Here it is, November. I have 7 months until my ‘A’ race (Eagleman). In the pool, I’m doing repeats at speeds and rest at or near what I did last year when at my fastest. Running, last Thursday I set lifetime PR for 5 miles and 10K (I used my warmup mile and added .21 at the end), albeit on a treadmill, increasing speed up to about 5:40/mile pace at the end. Felt great. Two days later, set a course PR for a 10.33 mile loop by > 1:30. Felt great, even pace or negative split. Haven’t been biking much, but my two hour rides on Sundays are at a pretty good power for me, considering doing that 10 miler on Saturdays. Usually after a run like that, my legs are sore the next day, but they felt fine yesterday.

I’ve always been a high intensity, low mileage kind of guy. Haven’t done more than 10,000yds/week in the pool; usually it’s ~7,500yds/week. Upping my running miles to ~25/week the last four weeks may seem laughable to many here, but I don’t have a lot of time, and that is indeed “upping it” for me. I don’t feel like I’ve tapered.

The question is: am I at peak fitness, or am I just in good shape and I can build on it? If the former, will I mess up my prep for June by doing these hard (but not killer) workouts? How can I determine that? Just by feel? Recovery heart rate in the morning? Push it until something gives?

I feel like I’ve got a reasonable grasp of the kinds of workouts I need to do, and that have shown me improvement in the past. The issues are “how hard”, “how often”, and “when”.

Input appreciated, as always.

2

The question is: am I at peak fitness, or am I just in good shape and I can build on it?

And added two 45lb. plates to the squat rack last week too?

Looks like you are “fit” and not simply “peaked.” I might have answered differently if you had said ‘I just PR’ed for my 8 x 400 session’ or the like, but hard 10ks and 10milers and >40mile rides are sound benchmarks of aerobic fitness. Because you have been doing these sessions regularly, the fitness has accumulated and you have reached a new plateau. It would be nice if we could see predictable incremental improvements every 2-3 weeks with few plateaus, but the reality is that for many people the jumps can be big and unpredictable. I would just keep doing what you are doing and don’t let anyone talk you into a ‘base’ period of slow miles. Works for some people but I don’t think it applies in your case. I wouldn’t get greedy strive for a PR every single run but keep rolling with the 10ks-10milers at a brisk pace.

3

I’ve had a similar experience this fall. HUGE PR’s at running distances, noticeable jumps in wattage output on the bike (sadly, nothing much to report in swimming, although I feel my technique continues to improve). I think it points to extreme fitness, due to 5 years of consistent, quality training. Only now, instead of just volume (I’m around 14 hours a week now), I am throwing in more intensity than I used to (thanks to my coach), and I can DO the intensity. The way I described it to my coach is that my legs have caught up to my cardiovascular system (I did not do any of the 3 sports until 6 years ago).

Achieving new PR’s lets you raise your own personal training bar. Doesn’t guarantee that tomorrow or next week’s workouts/races won’t suck; just be happy for what has happened, as it means you’ve been doing SOMETHING right.

Congratulations! Rejoice each victory, and then get back to your training so you can hold onto and build onto that fitness!

Here it is, November. I have 7 months until my ‘A’ race (Eagleman). In the pool, I’m doing repeats at speeds and rest at or near what I did last year when at my fastest. Running, last Thursday I set lifetime PR for 5 miles and 10K (I used my warmup mile and added .21 at the end), albeit on a treadmill, increasing speed up to about 5:40/mile pace at the end. Felt great. Two days later, set a course PR for a 10.33 mile loop by > 1:30. Felt great, even pace or negative split. Haven’t been biking much, but my two hour rides on Sundays are at a pretty good power for me, considering doing that 10 miler on Saturdays. Usually after a run like that, my legs are sore the next day, but they felt fine yesterday.

I’ve always been a high intensity, low mileage kind of guy. Haven’t done more than 10,000yds/week in the pool; usually it’s ~7,500yds/week. Upping my running miles to ~25/week the last four weeks may seem laughable to many here, but I don’t have a lot of time, and that is indeed “upping it” for me. I don’t feel like I’ve tapered.

The question is: am I at peak fitness, or am I just in good shape and I can build on it? If the former, will I mess up my prep for June by doing these hard (but not killer) workouts? How can I determine that? Just by feel? Recovery heart rate in the morning? Push it until something gives?

I feel like I’ve got a reasonable grasp of the kinds of workouts I need to do, and that have shown me improvement in the past. The issues are “how hard”, “how often”, and “when”.

Input appreciated, as always.

4

The question is: am I at peak fitness, or am I just in good shape and I can build on it?

And added two 45lb. plates to the squat rack last week too?

Looks like you are “fit” and not simply “peaked.” I might have answered differently if you had said ‘I just PR’ed for my 8 x 400 session’ or the like, but hard 10ks and 10milers and >40mile rides are sound benchmarks of aerobic fitness. Because you have been doing these sessions regularly, the fitness has accumulated and you have reached a new plateau. It would be nice if we could see predictable incremental improvements every 2-3 weeks with few plateaus, but the reality is that for many people the jumps can be big and unpredictable. I would just keep doing what you are doing and don’t let anyone talk you into a ‘base’ period of slow miles. Works for some people but I don’t think it applies in your case. I wouldn’t get greedy strive for a PR every single run but keep rolling with the 10ks-10milers at a brisk pace.

They ran out of plates at the gym. The club owner stands on the rack when I do squats.

What you said is what I’m going with. As another point of interest, :30 after my 10 mile course PR, my pulse was under 120.

5

With a more descriptive title, this thread could turn into a long and hotly-debated topic.

I look at it this way… endurance can be built quickly. Raising your speed/power take a lot longer. Example: anyone who routinely rides 30-50 miles can train for and complete a century ride (at their former 50 mile pace) in a matter of weeks, but raising that same person’s CP60 or 10K pace by say 10% takes a lot longer.

That means, to me, that it’s potentially silly to ease up and “base train” for an extended period. Sure, periodize and knock off the TTs, PR attempts, etc., for a month or something in the late fall/winter, or whatever. But 3 months of easy training, giving away those hard-earned watts, is a bad idea IMHO. If I do that, I will never get any faster since it takes me a loooong time to raise my power levels. I WAS going to prove this by going hard starting Nov, but a knee injury just ended that (likely thru Jan).

Read up on M2s stuff as well.

6

With a more descriptive title, this thread could turn into a long and hotly-debated topic.

That means, to me, that it’s potentially silly to ease up and “base train” for an extended period. Sure, periodize and knock off the TTs, PR attempts, etc., for a month or something in the late fall/winter, or whatever. But 3 months of easy training, giving away those hard-earned watts, is a bad idea IMHO. If I do that, I will never get any faster since it takes me a loooong time to raise my power levels. I WAS going to prove this by going hard starting Nov, but a knee injury just ended that (likely thru Jan).

Read up on M2s stuff as well.

So suggest a better subject.

My concern is how to differentiate between being at the razor’s edge of fitness where over-extending oneself is a real risk, and being in a good state of fitness upon which to build. No way am I doing that “base training” crap. Like you said: at age 47, it just takes too long to regain that fitness.

7

I don’t believe in easing up too much and “base training.” All I’m doing is lowering my volume a bit. Have to. It’s too cold for me to be outdoors on the bike, and besides I don’t have a major race until March. BUT, I can SO work on my power output on the bike and up the ante on my run speed now.

How do I distinguish between peaked and fit? I am sleeping normally, I am not totally fatigued, I am not chomping at the bit to race, I’m just sort of in a holding pattern where I am good with my current results.

I am able to consistently hit the same running speeds and bike wattages and stroke counts from week to week. Doesn’t mean I need to up the ante on any of those things just yet; I’m patient.

I can’t be peaked unless I’m doing race-focused workouts, which I’m not. Right now it’s all about get faster, get more powerful. Applying that to racing will happen down the road, and then it will be peaking and it will be accompanied by a nice taper.

You could start an entire thread about how often will you see incredible fitness jumps. Those don’t typically happen during a peaking period, IMHO–you would have NOTICED that weeks in advance of peak. A lot of training art is noticing these jumps in fitness and then having the good sense to hang onto them and be patient. But to expect that you will “all of a sudden” get faster 2-3 weeks out from a race is just silly. Either you had the requisite speed/fitness weeks before that, or you didn’t.

With a more descriptive title, this thread could turn into a long and hotly-debated topic.

That means, to me, that it’s potentially silly to ease up and “base train” for an extended period. Sure, periodize and knock off the TTs, PR attempts, etc., for a month or something in the late fall/winter, or whatever. But 3 months of easy training, giving away those hard-earned watts, is a bad idea IMHO. If I do that, I will never get any faster since it takes me a loooong time to raise my power levels. I WAS going to prove this by going hard starting Nov, but a knee injury just ended that (likely thru Jan).

Read up on M2s stuff as well.

So suggest a better subject.

My concern is how to differentiate between being at the razor’s edge of fitness where over-extending oneself is a real risk, and being in a good state of fitness upon which to build. No way am I doing that “base training” crap. Like you said: at age 47, it just takes too long to regain that fitness.

8

Someone, sooner or later, is going to say “yha, you may feel great now, but your results in July will be weaker than if you had taken it easy now and worked harder later. Easy training is like putting money in the bank, training hard is like withdrawing it. You’ll burn out. You can’t train w/ intensity year round!”

That may work for a gifted dude who can make fast gains from intense training. But for me, someone who is very ordinary, I ain’t got no time to waste training easy. Tangential anecdote… it took me many months to add just a few pounds to my bench press (5 years ago, when I cared about such things). If I followed some kind of cycle, I couldn’t ever have built up to what I did.

9

Fit.

Most athletes fail to realize that while there are adaptations from training that are short-term, like days or weeks, or medium term, like months, there are also training adaptations that come from years of training. So if you’re consistent with your training, you’ll see improvements from one year to the next.

I was having a conversation with a fellow coach (and smartass) about a related subject the other day. You see training advice all over the place, even those one size fits all trainng plans. How do all that advice and plans fit a long term plan, how do they account for this long term improvement? Well, they simply don’t.

Anyway, don’t feel bad for not knowing this aspect of training. There are athletes out there, even elite athletes, which once they find a routine that works, they stick to it, they repeat it year in, year out. They might win once, but they won’t win many times. Then these athletes become coaches, and they also repeat these patterns because if they were right for them, they should work for everybody else too.

10

I look at it this way… endurance can be built quickly. Raising your speed/power take a lot longer.
Uh… no… there you have your definitions wrong again.

11

For what it’s worth, I think fit.

I have found at certain times that I have basically ‘gone up a level’ from my previous reference point of fitness.

The trick is to keep working and not get injured, so you can build on this new reference point.

12

I look at it this way… endurance can be built quickly. Raising your speed/power take a lot longer.
Uh… no… there you have your definitions wrong again.

I’m not going down that path again, as the terms are just too messy (and you never got it right yourself w/ endurance=power=oatmeal=U2). So I’ll go with this rephrased statement…

You can add to your ability to go farther at the same pace very easily and quickly. Just riding/running more does that. Brainless. anyone who rides 50 miles and finds it challenging can up their miles and within a few months, POOF, ride 100 at the pace they formerly rode a 50. Conversely, raising your CP60 by a material amount is a much more complex and difficult task, and takes a lot longer to do (and efforts to do so may simply fail). You can’t just toss that into a late “build” and “peak” period and expect to make a giant difference unless you are very gifted.*

  • I think that’s why many training plans fail to deliver. They are designed by gifted athletes for whom just about anything works. And that “anything” just doesn’t work for everyone. We all know dudes who have a break in the late fall, cruise at 150w all winter, and then stack on a few months of hard work in the late spring and do great. Proof that the training plan works! Hell no. Those are the same types who in the weight room add 5lbs to their already respectable bench press every few weeks for 2 years. They are exceptions, not the masses.
13

Shit, Eagleman is my ‘A’ race! I better get on my bike!

all this talk about Eagleman is making me nervous. Especially considering I haven’t had Turkey dinner yet :wink:

14

you never got it right yourself w/ endurance=power=oatmeal=U2

Hehehehe… I like it!