Haven’t seen this on here yet, maybe I missed it?
Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
I hope this is supposed to be in pink.
Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
If teachers were armed, and also fail to act to intervene in a school shooting, would those teachers then be charged with child neglect amongst other things?
Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
If teachers were armed, and also fail to act to intervene in a school shooting, would those teachers then be charged with child neglect amongst other things?
This is one reason why arming teachers isn’t that great of an idea.
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
You gotta go in and do what you can to stop the shooting as a LEO but every person is going to respond differently to the stress and fear. Dude got scared and froze. It sucks but it happened. I can fault him for not doing his job well but I can’t fault him for being human. I just don’t see how this rises to the level of criminality beyond the false statement charge. I just think this got politicized too much for my comfort level.
I’m not condoning his actions. He sucked at his job that day.
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
You gotta go in and do what you can to stop the shooting as a LEO but every person is going to respond differently to the stress and fear. Dude got scared and froze. It sucks but it happened. I can fault him for not doing his job well but I can’t fault him for being human. I just don’t see how this rises to the level of criminality beyond the false statement charge. I just think this got politicized too much for my comfort level.
I’m not condoning his actions. He sucked at his job that day.
Was just saying almost this exact thing to my wife last night when it came on the news. How in the heck is doing your job poorly breaking the law?
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
You gotta go in and do what you can to stop the shooting as a LEO but every person is going to respond differently to the stress and fear. Dude got scared and froze. It sucks but it happened. I can fault him for not doing his job well but I can’t fault him for being human. I just don’t see how this rises to the level of criminality beyond the false statement charge. I just think this got politicized too much for my comfort level.
I’m not condoning his actions. He sucked at his job that day.
Was just saying almost this exact thing to my wife last night when it came on the news. How in the heck is doing your job poorly breaking the law?
Not apples for apples but what about a cop who pulls someone over for suspicion of DWI but the person only registers a .07. Cop lets the person go and three miles down the road the impaired (but not illegally impaired) driver kills a family of four. What’s the cop’s criminal liability? I just think charging LEOs on bad judgment calls/bad job is a slippery slope. Fire them, sue them… okay. But criminal charges???
Was just saying almost this exact thing to my wife last night when it came on the news. How in the heck is doing your job poorly breaking the law?
Doctors and nurses can go to jail for doing their job poorly. They know this. So do cops.
Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
If teachers were armed, and also fail to act to intervene in a school shooting, would those teachers then be charged with child neglect amongst other things?
No they shouldn’t IMO. Although armed and trained, the expectation is for them to intervene or act to the best of their ability within the situation. Their primary job is to teach. A cops primary job is to protect. If they do not and they should have, they can be held liable for the consequences.
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Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
If teachers were armed, and also fail to act to intervene in a school shooting, would those teachers then be charged with child neglect amongst other things?
No they shouldn’t IMO. Although armed and trained, the expectation is for them to intervene or act to the best of their ability within the situation. Their primary job is to teach. A cops primary job is to protect. If they do not and they should have, they can be held liable for the consequences.
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But there is no other reason to carry in school then to protect. Given the added risks it adds to the environment, I think it’s fair to say if you want to carry on school grounds, that comes with responsibility to act. If you don’t want to intervene, don’t carry as there is no point.
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
You gotta go in and do what you can to stop the shooting as a LEO but every person is going to respond differently to the stress and fear. Dude got scared and froze. It sucks but it happened. I can fault him for not doing his job well but I can’t fault him for being human. I just don’t see how this rises to the level of criminality beyond the false statement charge. I just think this got politicized too much for my comfort level.
I’m not condoning his actions. He sucked at his job that day.
Was just saying almost this exact thing to my wife last night when it came on the news. How in the heck is doing your job poorly breaking the law?
I generally agree with you and the GMAN. But for sake of discussion, I’ll offer a couple possible responses.
Medical malpractice and legal malpractice are 2 places that immediately come to mind as situations where if you do your job poorly it can lead to legal liability. In both cases, a person has voluntarily assumed a duty of care with regard to someone else, and a minimum level of competent performance is expected. Mess it up badly enough and you can certainly face civil liability, and perhaps criminal liability in some cases.
Argument would be similar in concept here, I think. LEO is assuming a duty to try to protect kids from harm. Screw it up badly enough, you have failed to discharge your basic obligations to even a minimal level of competence and could face liability.
More narrow answer to the question:
Florida Statute 827.10 says “A caregiver who deserts a child under circumstances in which the caregiver knew or should have known that the desertion exposes the child to unreasonable risk of harm commits a felony of the third degree.”
Florida Statute 39.01(10) says “Caregiver†means the parent, legal custodian, permanent guardian, adult household member, or other person responsible for a child’s welfare as defined in subsection (54)."
And (54) says “Other person responsible for a child’s welfare†includes the child’s legal guardian or foster parent; an employee of any school, public or private child day care center, residential home, institution, facility, or agency; a law enforcement officer employed in any facility, service, or program for children that is operated or contracted by the Department of Juvenile Justice; or any other person legally responsible for the child’s welfare in a residential setting; and also includes an adult sitter or relative entrusted with a child’s care."
So, I would assume the argument would be that the officer was a ‘caregiver’ (as an employee of a school and thus a person ‘responsible for a child’s welfare’) who deserted children under circumstances in which he knew the desertion exposed the kids to unreasonable risk of harm.
Again, not saying I agree with the charge, but I think that’s the basis for it.
Somebody has to pay. If only the teachers had been armed…
If teachers were armed, and also fail to act to intervene in a school shooting, would those teachers then be charged with child neglect amongst other things?
No they shouldn’t IMO. Although armed and trained, the expectation is for them to intervene or act to the best of their ability within the situation. Their primary job is to teach. A cops primary job is to protect. If they do not and they should have, they can be held liable for the consequences.
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But there is no other reason to carry in school then to protect. Given the added risks it adds to the environment, I think it’s fair to say if you want to carry on school grounds, that comes with responsibility to act. If you don’t want to intervene, don’t carry as there is no point.
The question is the level of responsibility. Teachers would not have the same level as officers, to the point they would be criminally liable if they didn’t intervene. To allow teachers to carry or not is another debate.
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While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
You gotta go in and do what you can to stop the shooting as a LEO but every person is going to respond differently to the stress and fear. Dude got scared and froze. It sucks but it happened. I can fault him for not doing his job well but I can’t fault him for being human. I just don’t see how this rises to the level of criminality beyond the false statement charge. I just think this got politicized too much for my comfort level.
I’m not condoning his actions. He sucked at his job that day.
Was just saying almost this exact thing to my wife last night when it came on the news. How in the heck is doing your job poorly breaking the law?
Not apples for apples but what about a cop who pulls someone over for suspicion of DWI but the person only registers a .07. Cop lets the person go and three miles down the road the impaired (but not illegally impaired) driver kills a family of four. What’s the cop’s criminal liability? I just think charging LEOs on bad judgment calls/bad job is a slippery slope. Fire them, sue them… okay. But criminal charges???
I realize this is off subject but, a bartender serving that person can be criminally liable for in this situation. So what’s good for the goose…
BTW, I don’t think bartenders should be held to account for the actions of their customers outside of the bar.
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
I agree. I imagine there are many cases where cops froze up, but there was no high-publicity result. Are those still crimes? Going to be interesting.
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
You gotta go in and do what you can to stop the shooting as a LEO but every person is going to respond differently to the stress and fear. Dude got scared and froze. It sucks but it happened. I can fault him for not doing his job well but I can’t fault him for being human. I just don’t see how this rises to the level of criminality beyond the false statement charge. I just think this got politicized too much for my comfort level.
I’m not condoning his actions. He sucked at his job that day.
Warren vs. D.C. (I think) established that police have no duty to protect people.
Not apples for apples but what about a cop who pulls someone over for suspicion of DWI but the person only registers a .07. Cop lets the person go and three miles down the road the impaired (but not illegally impaired) driver kills a family of four. What’s the cop’s criminal liability?
Should be zero. The guy isn’t legally impaired. Do we expect cops to arrest people who aren’t breaking the law? It’s absurd.
Also, by the time they got the guy to the station to confirm his BAL with a blood test it would be even lower.
Not apples for apples but what about a cop who pulls someone over for suspicion of DWI but the person only registers a .07. Cop lets the person go and three miles down the road the impaired (but not illegally impaired) driver kills a family of four. What’s the cop’s criminal liability?
Should be zero. The guy isn’t legally impaired. Do we expect cops to arrest people who aren’t breaking the law? It’s absurd.
Also, by the time they got the guy to the station to confirm his BAL with a blood test it would be even lower.
Unless he just drank. It takes a bit of time for your BAC to peak.
While I don’t believe he did his job valiantly or properly that day but since when is cowardice a crime, even for a cop? The legal and judicial jiu-jitsu on this one is going to be interesting.
I agree. I imagine there are many cases where cops froze up, but there was no high-publicity result. Are those still crimes? Going to be interesting.
The case here is that he did worse than just freeze up. He fled, hid for 45 minutes, directed other officers to not go into the building where he knew the shots were coming from, then later lied about it.
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I was only able to scan the posts, so I’m sorry if I’m repeating what someone has already said.
Being scared is not a criminal act. Yes, the guy ran and was the last line of defense, but making it criminal? No…