in training at the moment. for me anyway. my arms seem to get more tired when i’m swimming! hah i got smallish hands for a guy too so yeah, they prob hold me back in terms of power i can generate.
hmm, could it be my body position when swimming? swimming with a pullbuoy gives yr body a similar position to swimming with a wetsuit.
im trying this head down stuff, ive pretty much always had a highish head position when i used to swim competitively (92-96), feels a bit weird…i’ll see how it goes. does feel a lil more relaxed tho.
ive always found my swimming seems to be at its best when my arm recovery is totally relaxed.
i did both my ac joints in rugby 2-3 years ago and all the tendons/ligaments were torn, there is a step down from end of collarbone to shoulder, this would probably hamper my freestyle huh.
If you’ve got bad shoulders, I’d stay the hell away from hand paddles. While you will be able to move a lot more water with them (and thus go faster), it’s extra strain your shoulders don’t need. Frankly, I don’t see the point in them anyway, as you want to develop the maximum catch/anchor for your pull as you can without them - unless you’ve got a race coming up where they’re legal.
As for pull buoys, I don’t see the point there either. Fix your body position and you shouldn’t be any faster with a pull buoy than without. To me it’s akin to training with a big fairing on the front of your bike. Sure you’ll go faster, but it doesn’t really teach you anything or make you faster without one.
Hey fulla–Do you find that looking down changes where you take your breath? Seems to me to be a little more challenging to get air–not sure I can maintain it when I start getting beaten up on a swim start. But it does lead to a more horizontal position–I’m a “sinker”.
What I have started doing, and it is the first time my arms have really flet sore, like I am making them stronger, is to do my “pull” with a pull bouy and work each arm hard through extension, as though I am doing a workout in the gym with a heavy weight–really pull it. I use the pull bouy so I can concentrate on that effort, and not worry about position–probably a mistake–but it lets me survive 20X50 of the hard pulls
my shoulders arent weak as such, well not overall anyway…my shoulder press is pretty good. just wondering ac joints affect my swim speed. i do paddles for muscular endurance work, so i can get used to pulling harder over longer periods.
head down, it does feel a bit different breathing…ill have to see how it pans out tho
Pull buoy = motorpacing? Maybe there is a reason to use one. I use one when my legs are tired from the day before, or when I want to save my legs for another workout later, but really want to make my arms work harder. Who knows, I’m not fast as a swimmer.
get paddles w/ holes in them. several different manufactors make them. The solid one piece sq speedo’s are among the worse if you have shoulder problems.
W/ the head down to breath don’t turn the head too much to breath, rotate the body along the spinal axis and your head will go. You also should not have your head looking straight down. Look about 10 feet in front on the lane line.
I dunno - there are other ways to simulate fast swimming. Drafting faster swimmers is one, as is swimming “with” the pull of a length of surgical tubing. (see link below)
I suppose if used properly it could be an effective tool, but the temptation to misuse them (of which I’ve been guilty in the past) is pretty strong. Most of the swimmers I see at the pool who carry them are loathe to give them up, and I can think of 2 or 3 right off the top of my head who I’ve never seen without.
Tethered swimming is my favourite way of forcing my arms to work harder, and the extra resistance helps me maintain my form as well, as it’s very noticable if it starts to waver.
BTW–I use your “training should be hard, etc.” as my motivation to make it hurt when training. If I don’t take it to where it huurts and keep it there, I don’t feel like I have done my job.
I don;t know if that is your quote or not, but thanks for the motivation.
You also should not have your head looking straight down. Look about 10 feet in front on the lane line.
With each degree of head angle, I feel my horizontal position decline–on the other hand, looking straight down doesn’t feel comfortable. What’s a mother to do?
Agreed on the paddles with holes. I have theTyr Catalyst paddles. Paddles are useful for developing swim specific strength that you won’t generally build any other way doing pull sets.
The only use for a pullbuoy is to help keep your legs in the appropriate position during a pull set when you aren’t kicking. Anything else is cheating and shortchanges your swim development IMHO.
The only use for a pullbuoy is to help keep your legs in the appropriate position during a pull set when you aren’t kicking. Anything else is cheating and shortchanges your swim development IMHO.
OK, then what is a “pull set”?
I am NOT a strong swimmer. IM swim times for me are in the 1:05-1:12 range. Also, I’m a sinker. I’m one of those few people in the pool who sink straight to the bottom when I stop moving, most people bob around the surface, or just under it. I sink. Get your Master’s group to try it all at once, you’ll see who sinks and who floats.
Plus, I don’t like swimming. My legs are dead weight and my ankle flexibility sucks enough that my kick actually moves me backward.
I gave up on kicking long ago. With no kick, the body position adjustment necessary to keep my legs from sinking behind me is more than I can muster for long and it messes up my stroke.
I am about 15 seconds faster per 100 with a pullbouy vs without. 15 seconds!
A wetsuit mimics the effect of a pull bouy, even stronger. I have never done a race where a wetsuit was forbidden, and I don’t intend to ever race in the big dance on Kona, so the pull bouy allows me to train just like I race, with a big giant 4mm rubber pull bouy wrapped around my legs. My legs don’t tire me out this way, and I can train my arms and stroke mechanics longer. Yes, of course, there are those who are interested in swimming who would say my stroke mechanics are lousy if a pull bouy increases my speed by that much, and technically they are correct. I’m not interested in swimming enough to put the effort in it to change that situation. Plus - my kick propels me backward!
This is coming from a guy who only swims to get to bike and run, so take it for what its worth, but I love my pull bouy. Its my version of a wetsuit for pool workouts.
So I train with the pull bouy, just about every stroke. My arms get stronger, my stroke gets better, and when I leave the water my legs are as fresh as daisies.
Schwing–I am so happy to see someone say that. I could have written it myself (except your swim times are better). I can do a freshwater half-iron w/o wetsuit, but I really fight body position. Ocean swim w/o a wetsuit a little easier. Yes, everybody, I press the “T”, I “press the bouy”, I “swim downhill”, I kick–a soon as I lose the hydro-plane effect from my pull, my legs sink. I wish it were otherwise.
I think using a pull bouy is a good tool to give those of us with SLS (Sinking Leg Syndrome) a point of reference for good balance. If you are working on balance without the bouy and start to think “Hey, I feel like I am really starting to streamline my legs rather than dragging them underneath me like an anchor” you can pull out the bouy and see if it changes your position much. You may find that you are improving, but still realize that you have a ways to go, or you may be right that the form is coming around and you are ready for a breakthrough in speed, or you could be lying to yourself and you suck just as bad today as you did last week (often my discovery, but I am slowly improving.) The nice thing is you have a feedback based on feel which can supplement the feedback you get from the clock.
I go faster doing pull - regular pb and yellow speedo paddles. I have a better body position with a pull buoy and paddles help me lenghten out my stroke; but you have to be careful that you don’t drop your stroke rate too low. For a cruising 400m the differance between swim and pull is about 15 seconds - so 4:55 vs 5:10. When I was in swim club it was pretty common for the guys to pull faster then swim.