Ok Slowtwich’ers I know the question has been raised or asked in the past. But I was just curious on some thoughs to help me make my new bike decision. I am very close to pulling the trigger and getting a new ride. I have the option to go with a Kalibur (2007 Internal Routing Black/White) or a P2C Blue And Black. I have been a big fan of both of these frames for quite a while and will be building the bike up from the frame out. Any comments or ideas would be welcome from owners who went through this similar buying process.
What are the + - of each and what potentially makes one better than the other?
I think Tom Demerly reviewed one and liked it, but my recollection is that it is NOT as aero as the P2C. I don’t own a Cervelo, but I’d own a P2C in a minute. I just wish it came in better colors.
Yeah I am not crazy about the color selections that’s why I tracked down a Blue and Black in my size. It’s the only way I would get the P2C. I think the Red White is terrible.
I also did do some research and found that the P2C is more aero then the Kuota. Both are great bikes maybe $500 in difference. That’s something to consider.
I’m in no position to argue about aero between these two bikes, but c’mon, how much difference could whatever difference exists really make? Record Kona ride on a bike that isn’t aero enough? I’ll give you there’s likely a difference. Few seconds in 112 miles- maybe. Heck, even a minute in 112 miles? That’s 1/270th difference, and there’s no way it was a minute.
The major thing to consider is the geometries of these two bikes. The Kalibur gives you a 74-76 degree seat angle while the P2C goes 74-78. If you want to ride steep, the Cervelo is probably better. Not riding as steep as possible hasn’t hurt Norman however.
I’m in no position to argue about aero between these two bikes, but c’mon, how much difference could whatever difference exists really make? Record Kona ride on a bike that isn’t aero enough? I’ll give you there’s likely a difference. Few seconds in 112 miles- maybe. Heck, even a minute in 112 miles? That’s 1/270th difference, and there’s no way it was a minute.
You raise a very good point here. Thanks for bringing this to light. I have had my heart set on the Kuota for so long now. Just love the bike.
I actually test rode both today and I liked the feel of the Kalibur much better. It comes down to comfort for me and I just didn’t fit the P2C as well. When a bike just feels right, you can’t go wrong.
My big problem is that I don’t have the luxry to test ride either of these bikes as the place I am going through only has frames to build out. I suppose after I were to get on one or the other if I didn’t like it they would get me on the “right” frame but I would rather not have to go though with that.
No doubt that the Cervelo is more aero (confirmed by my friends at the MIT wind tunnel…seriously). However, whether the difference is “material” in the real-world depends upon how close you are to qualifying.
I qualified for Kona by less than 20 seconds when I qualified…In that case, maybe it matters. However, for the VAST majority, you should buy the bike that fits best and gets you motivated to suffer the most (which one will get you ready to enter the pain cave?).
With that said, see my classified-ad for my NEW P2C frameset (54cm in blue) that I’m selling.
I have now owned by Kuota Kalibur for a week. My take is that it is an ideal bike for a rider that wants to ride “moderate steep”. I will do a full reveiw of the bike in the next week. Even though I have had it for a week, it did not hurt my half Ironman bike split today, which was 2:25 ride time on a windy day with 45 K on a broken front Hed Stinger60 after a spoke nipple blew apart on the mother of all potholes.
I don't get your point. If ceteris paribus, why would you not pick the bike with the additional free speed? So what if it's a fraction of a second? It's FREE speed. The OP did mention however a price difference but I got no idea which is more costly.
I stand by my point, all else being equal(price, fits you well, etc.), go with the more aero frame. Unless of course we’re talking about the irrational nature of wanting to be different and how something looks. =P Oh and what’s so different about being different if everyone is different?
It’s “free speed” in a wind tunnel. In the real world, it’s about how you feel about it. And I love the way the Kalibur looks. Heck, I’d buy it over the Cervelo’s just for that.
Ill second the P2C. Have had mine since april and feel very fast and am faster than the majority of my training partners. The only somewhat negative aspect is the weight issue compared to other tri bikes; QR, Orbeas, and Kuotas, thats all I have compared it to. Anyone else notice this and is there anything you can do to eleviate any of the weight? Sorry to hijack a little. But as far as performance and speed goes, I have no issues.
Walter
Raptor - Is that bike pic of the 2008 or 2007 frame set? It’s still red…not a big fan or red… but it looks a lot nicer than the other paint scheme. I wonder when it would be available for retail if it’s 2008?
As for price it looks like the Cervelo works out to be roughtly $500 less than the Kuota. Personally, $500 is a sizable amount of money. For instance it puts a set of HED aero bars on a bike for you for the same price as the Kuota frame alone. I like that idea.
Also from a speed perspective my bike has been sub 2:20 HIM guy right now. (1st HIM) So aerodynamics is going to play a factor and from a qualifiying perspective I feel as though I am pretty close. Doing Clearwater in Nov. This is where I will probaby race this new bike for the first time. Ultimately, Kona is the destination of choice. So we’ll see.
So now that it looks like the 2008 frames are almost out and everything else being equal would you guys feel comfortable buying a 2006 Blue and Black one that’s been sitting around a bike shop? I am not sure I am on board with that right idea but I don’t know why. I guess becuase I have been told that the frame is exactally the same minus paint between all three years. I just like the idea of a newer “out of box” frame.
I’ll post a pic of my Kalibur dressed up with race wheels from last nite’s race. Yes it looks hot, and if nothing else, when you feel like crap and your bike looks hot, you better perform.
I have ridden P3SL, Guru Trilite, Soloist, QR Lucero and the Kalibur over the last 3 years. In my real world tests of aeroness, in pretty well the same aero tuck on all three bikes on a 70kph downhill that I do ~100 times per year in training, I hit 69-72 kph on the downhill with all these bikes. And the speed seemingly has nothing to do with the bike. 69 kph by and large happens on cold high pressure days…72 kph happens on warm low pressure days.
Finally, of the list, the Guru Trilite and the Kalibur were the best handling bikes with “no hands”, on rollers and technical switchbacks or on 180 degree bike turnarounds. I can go into corners or turnarounds at close to full speed without braking much, dive in, point my belly button at where I want to come out and the bike just follows. There geometries are also very similar (longer stay at 40 cm, long front centre, 76 seat tube, 72 head tube)
Honestly, I doubt that you would really notice much difference between those two bikes…both made by good companies. You can’t go wrong with either one. Here’s my take, FWIW…
I went with the Kuota for what may seem to be a minor reason…two water bottle bosses. I hate having my drinks up behind the saddle. It’s a pain. All things being equal, having 2 water bottle bosses is the tie breaker for me. Now that I own the Kuota, I can say that I really love that bike. It handles great (50mph in the aero bars, and rock steady), you can ride it no-handed easily, and the ride is uber-comfy…very forgiving over the rough stuff.
I do own 2 Cervelos, and I will say that their customer service is awesome. My R2.5 came apart at the bottom bracket / chainstay, and within a month I was riding a brand new Soloist Carbon, which is a dream.
