I know it’s a “no-no” at WTC IM races to have anything handed to you from a spectator while racing. Is there any rules violation if you dump off something to a spectator? If I want to dump off a fuel belt or long sleeve shirt, etc., any problem with doing so? I guess I can always just toss it aside in the proximity of someone I know. But is it a violation to hand it off?
According to the rules, yes it seems to be. According to how the refs call it no, I’ve never heard of a ref giving a penalty for discarding stuff to someone. I can’t recall any instances of outside assitnance in tris being called, but I suspect their have been a couple.
If you were giving it away wouldn’t that be Assisting the Outside not Outside Assistance? Would you get a penalty for just chucking the stuff away anyway?
Theoretically I believe you could get a penalty for littering since you’re only supposed to drop stuff in a designated zone but I really doubt it would ever get called.
Theoretically I believe you could get a penalty for littering since you’re only supposed to drop stuff in a designated zone but I really doubt it would ever get called.
I would totally agree with the above.
I was ready to post a similar thread. Must be thinking about where to dump warm clothes after first loop on the bike at IMAZ?
On a related note; when does a competitor in the race become “outside assistance”? When you finish the race can you go back out on the course and run with a friend to give encouragement?
I was ready to post a similar thread. Must be thinking about where to dump warm clothes after first loop on the bike at IMAZ?
On a related note; when does a competitor in the race become “outside assistance”? When you finish the race can you go back out on the course and run with a friend to give encouragement?I’m pretty sure that’s not allowed.
But aside from missing your timing chip, how would they know?
On a related note; when does a competitor in the race become “outside assistance”? When you finish the race can you go back out on the course and run with a friend to give encouragement?
When you stop becoming a competitor (i.e. cross the finish line). So no, it’s illegal pacing. However, like other similar violations, pretty much guaranteed not to be enforced, since you’ll be wearing a race number.
I was ready to post a similar thread. Must be thinking about where to dump warm clothes after first loop on the bike at IMAZ?
On a related note; when does a competitor in the race become “outside assistance”? When you finish the race can you go back out on the course and run with a friend to give encouragement?
Not so much clothes - i’ll probably just start with arm warmers, which are easy enough to throw over the aero bars if I want them off. I’m content to be cold for the first half hour on the bike while the body temp rises.
Was thinking primarilly about the fuel belt. I’d like to start the run with the belt, to make sure that for the first 5-6 miles, I have what I want when I want it. I find that walking begets walking, so I’d prefer to keep running through aid stations to start and at the same time, make sure I’m getting plenty of fluids/nutrition early on. But, once the belt is empty, I don’t want to take the time to stand there and refill bottles, and don’t want to carry it around if I don’t have to. At $40 a pop, they are expensive to just toss aside.
I dropped my fuel belt at the SN station, stopped the second time to get something else out (or the other way around, whichever, I stopped twice). They don’t check you off as to how many times you’ve stoppd, etc.
I was ready to post a similar thread. Must be thinking about where to dump warm clothes after first loop on the bike at IMAZ?
On a related note; when does a competitor in the race become “outside assistance”? When you finish the race can you go back out on the course and run with a friend to give encouragement?
All you have to do is read the rules, oddly enough.
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Do not litter. Any item that needs to be discarded, including but not limited to water bottles, gel wrappers, energy bar wrappers, broken bike parts, or clothing items, may only be discarded in the trash drop zones at each aid station. Discarding any item outside of the trash drop zones will result in a penalty.
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NO INDIVIDUAL SUPPORT VEHICLES OR NON-PARTICIPANT ESCORT RUNNERS ARE ALLOWED. This is an individual endurance event. Teamwork as a result of outside assistance, which provides an advantage over single competitors, is not allowed. Individual support vehicles or non-participant escort runners will result in disqualification. A non-participant escort runner includes Athletes who have withdrawn from the race, have been disqualified or have finished the race. Friends, family, members, coaches or supporters of any type may not bike, drive or run alongside athlete, may not pass food or other items to athlete and should be warned to stay completely clear of all Athletes to avoid the disqualification of a athlete. It is incumbent upon each athlete to immediately reject any attempt to assist, follow, or escort. It IS permissible for an athlete who is still competing to run with other athletes who are still competing.
And all USAT rules also apply.
John
That ws stipulated early on. “Discarding any item outside of the trash drop zones will result in a penalty.” Do you really find this to be the case? Have you ever heard of someone being given a penalty for giving a jacket to their wife?
I think thats one of the big issues with tri. Most of the rules are routinely ignored by officials. Unfortunately that includes the "important’ ones like drafting.
That ws stipulated early on. “Discarding any item outside of the trash drop zones will result in a penalty.” Do you really find this to be the case? Have you ever heard of someone being given a penalty for giving a jacket to their wife?
I think thats one of the big issues with tri. Most of the rules are routinely ignored by officials. Unfortunately that includes the "important’ ones like drafting.
To me it’s like running into a store “just for a second” without putting $$ in the meter. You probably won’t get caught, but if you do, I don’t want to hear you whine about it. It’s also in the rules (or was) that you have to have reflective tape or it’s a penalty. Anyone ever heard of someone being penalized for that (OK, that one you could whine about)?
Are there even race marshalls out on the run course? I assume somewhere, but IM run courses are very big
I would somehow toss extra gear near a trash can that a friend was conveiniently near by.
jaretj
I think thats one of the big issues with tri. Most of the rules are routinely ignored by officials. Unfortunately that includes the "important’ ones like drafting.
That’s the same way with about 90% of life, unfortunately. People that park in handicapped zones for 5 minutes, speeding, running stop signs, taking office supplies, etc. etc.
And, it’s due to some of the same reason. Way more participants than there are enforcers. Drafting is exactly like speeding. Your odds of getting caught are pretty slim for the most part.
John
Little off topic. Must have been 12 - 15 years ago maybe more. There was a guy, I think pro with a great time, while 50 -100 yards from the finish someone handed him a beer. He drank, was DQ’ed. Think in Kona
There is a No Discards rule, at most IM races I know of.
At IMNZ last time I did it, they countered this by having a specific discard zone. As IMNZ starts very cold and on the bike it gets to the hot part of the day (sometimes as much as 25deg C difference in 5 hours) it can be difficult to know what to wear. Arm warmers, vests or even jackets are entirely sensible at the bike start, and a thong is suitable for the run, it can be hard to know what to wear. Having a discard zone (after lap one) makes a lot of sense.
As with many rules (not just at IM’s), they start with the best intentions, but sometimes create almost as many problems as they solve. By having a no discard rule, they help reduce/eliminate littering, and also may prevent accidents by discarded jackets for example, getting in the way of other competitors. However, it may mean some competitors are under dressed for the bike and get hypothermia or whatever. Or they can wobble all over the place trying to pass a jacket to a wife or whatever. Good intention, that gets a simplistic rule that doesn’t work as well as it could. The discard zone helps remedy this.
Yes, “pacing” counts as outside assistance!
Back in 1998 at IMNZ, I had a shocker of a day (back issues…which I’m having now also). The cutoff back then was 15:30 thanks to rich locals not wanting too much noise at the suburban finish line. I was fast approaching the cutoff! FARK. Anyway, a co-worker was there on the day cheering me along. He was walking beside me, giving me encouragement and doing the math to make sure I’d finish inside the cutoff. Well, an aquaintance who happened to own a local bike shop, and had won his AG at IMNZ, happened to be a marshall. He saw us and came over. I thought he was coming for a chat. Nope, he was there to warn me that if my buddy stayed walking with me, I’d be DQ’d for outside assistance. My buddy shook his head, walked away and we never went back to that bike store again. It closed about a year later 
Any rule is a line in the sand. Deciding where that line should be, is always difficult, and people will always argue it. Me? I just learn the rules and follow them.
AT IMNZ 2009, both titanium rails of my saddle snapped at about 70kph just before 1/2 way, when I hit something on the road, in the pouring rain. I came sooooooo close to coming off my bike, but somehow stayed upright. Well I stopped at T2 which was 1/2 way throughthe bike, looking for legal assistance to fix my saddle. Nada. I stopped several more times at aid stations and support vans, still Nada. At one van, they had nothing but said "wait here, we’ll go get one from the store in town! They wanted me to hand over a credit card so they could go and get it! WTF? Some support van! All they had was tubes and tubbies. I had $20 stuffed in my spares pouch (left in there from training rides). I considered stopping at a garage to get a couple of circle clamps to hold the bits together, but worried about the “outside assistance” (not like I was going to weld my forks or anything and get the apprentice to pump the bellows or anything so I kept riding on the broken saddle. I rode almost 100km riding on the back of my seat, unable to use the aero bars. Bugger, but at least I finished, just 4 seconds over a PB, and stayed within the rules!
Know the rules, follow them and race to personal glory is my motto.
Little off topic. Must have been 12 - 15 years ago maybe more. There was a guy, I think pro with a great time, while 50 -100 yards from the finish someone handed him a beer. He drank, was DQ’ed. Think in Kona
New Zealand has quite a beer drinking culture. Every year some competitor gets handed a beer in the finish chute and every year, about 2000 people scream out “don’t drink it!!!” You wouldn’t believe how many people look perplexed by this. FARK.
Know the rules people!
Back in 1995 I did Esprit Triathlon in Montreal (IM distance). They had a no outside assistance rule in place, but at the briefing, they stated it was ok for max one supporter to WALK with a competitor, for company. There were only 89 starters that year I think, and it got pretty lonely out there at night let me tell you.
I got ITB syndrome, (first and only time) and walked a lot of the marathon. I was devastated that I’d trained so hard and was slowed by my body falling apart. My wife had another spectator look after our kids and she walked 1 lap with me as “support”. I thought she’d say things like “you’ve trained hard, you can do this” or similar. But NOOOOOO, she said “You’ve spent all our money, not seen the kids in months, taken up our 2 week annual vacation for this stupid race. You ARE going to finish or…” Then she pulled off the course and I went on my merry way. Some support! LOL
"Have you ever heard of someone being given a penalty for giving a jacket to their wife? "
I don’t know any case involving any age grouper but Zamora was disqualified from Embrunman this year for doing just that.