Ottawa Half and AnalyticCycling.com

Triathlon Forum
1

I am planning on doing the Ottawa Half at the end of the month and was messing around with Google earth and analyticcycling.com. I came up with the following course profile, anyone in the area know how close this fits the actual course? According to analyticcycling.com it suggests that 175 watts will cover a lap of the course with a hed front and disk rear in around 26:30 or so (with a light wind thrown in for good measure).

Anyone in Ottawa know if this sound reasonable for the course?

{
{ 0 , 151 , -3.02 , 320 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 151 , 366 , -1.84 , 330 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 366 , 537 , 2.66 , 329 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 537 , 652 , 2.32 , 352 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 652 , 816 , -3.9 , 15 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 816 , 1007 , 0 , 0 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 1007 , 1222 , 2.97 , 0 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 1222 , 1567 , 0 , 35 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 1567 , 1718 , -3.22 , 30 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 1718 , 1844 , -0.72 , 2 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 1844 , 2272 , -0.28 , 344 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 2272 , 2395 , -0.74 , 5 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 2395 , 2530 , -1.58 , 30 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 2530 , 2858 , 1.49 , 45 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 2858 , 2945 , 1.75 , 75 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 2945 , 3255 , 0 , 90 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 3255 , 3365 , 0 , 60 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 3365 , 3506 , 2.6 , 45 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 3506 , 3597 , -2.67 , 40 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 3597 , 3701 , -1.47 , 45 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 3701 , 3951 , 0 , 80 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 3951 , 4111 , 0 , 75 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 4111 , 4210 , 1.23 , 45 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 4210 , 4473 , -0.46 , 30 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 4473 , 4739 , -0.23 , 10 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 4739 , 4899 , -0.38 , 330 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 4899 , 5027 , -1.41 , 335 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 5027 , 5206 , 0 , 330 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 5206 , 5469 , 0.58 , 348 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 5469 , 5633 , -0.74 , 10 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 5633 , 5720 , 4.2 , 353 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 5720 , 5857 , 0.44 , 330 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 5857 , 6008 , -1 , 335 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 6008 , 6156 , 0 , 0 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 6156 , 6253 , -0.22 , 20 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 6253 , 6356 , -1.78 , 20 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 6356 , 6759 , 0.23 , 20 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 6759 , 6874 , -1.86 , 330 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 6874 , 7117 , 0.88 , 300 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 7117 , 7238 , 3.51 , 300 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 7238 , 7310 , -2.53 , 300 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 7310 , 7500 , -0.8 , 295 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },

{ 7500 , 7690 , 0.8 , 115 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 7690 , 7762 , 2.53 , 120 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 7762 , 7883 , -3.51 , 120 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 7883 , 8126 , -0.88 , 120 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 8126 , 8241 , 1.86 , 150 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 8241 , 8644 , -0.23 , 200 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 8644 , 8747 , 1.78 , 200 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 8747 , 8844 , 0.22 , 200 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 8844 , 8992 , 0 , 180 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 8992 , 9143 , 1 , 155 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 9143 , 9280 , -0.44 , 150 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 9280 , 9367 , -4.2 , 173 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 9367 , 9531 , 0.74 , 190 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 9531 , 9794 , -0.58 , 168 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 9794 , 9973 , 0 , 150 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 9973 , 10101 , 1.41 , 155 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 10101 , 10261 , 0.38 , 150 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 10261 , 10527 , 0.23 , 190 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 10527 , 10790 , 0.46 , 210 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 10790 , 10889 , -1.23 , 225 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 10889 , 11049 , 0 , 255 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 11049 , 11299 , 0 , 260 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 11299 , 11403 , 1.47 , 225 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 11403 , 11494 , 2.67 , 220 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 11494 , 11635 , -2.6 , 225 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 11635 , 11745 , 0 , 240 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 11745 , 12055 , 0 , 270 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 12055 , 12142 , -1.75 , 255 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 12142 , 12470 , -1.49 , 225 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 12470 , 12605 , 1.58 , 210 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 12605 , 12728 , 0.74 , 185 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 12728 , 13156 , 0.28 , 164 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 13156 , 13282 , 0.72 , 182 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 13282 , 13433 , 3.22 , 210 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 13433 , 13778 , 0 , 215 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 13778 , 13993 , -2.97 , 180 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 13993 , 14184 , 0 , 180 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 14184 , 14348 , 3.9 , 195 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 14348 , 14463 , -2.32 , 172 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 14463 , 14634 , -2.66 , 149 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 14634 , 14849 , 1.84 , 150 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 },
{ 14849 , 15000 , 3.02 , 140 , 0.004 , 3 , 250 , 0 }
}

2

That looks like way too much information to be messing around with to figure out how fast you’ll go :slight_smile: The course for the half has 6 loops. There are some small inclines (I wouldn’t really call them hills) throughout so you can really get by with only a few gears. I did the race 2 years ago and it was a little windy on some parts of the course. The thing that slows you down on this course is that out and back loops require 180 degree turns every 7.5k and it can get a little crowded at the pylon.

3

Your slope numbers look pretty accurate - the course is pretty flat with a couple of slight rises. I don’t have a power meter on my bike, but I think based on what my indoor trainer says the 175 watts figure for the bike should also be fairly accurate for the speed (I think that 26:30 works out to about 34 k.p.h.). The only caution with your analysis that I’d have is that sometimes it can get pretty windy along the canal. I’ll try to ride the course this weekend with my GPS and post a link to the elevation map.

4

Thanks for the info. I was looking at WeatherUnderground.com for past details on wind and temperature and such. Unfortunately it doesn’t have any history for Ottawa.

I agree the numbers are a little bit of overkill but I had some free time this weekend and figured I would play around with seeing how accurate the power models are. They seem to line up pretty close on my local TT course. Which also seem to match up with the estimates from my trainer. If this works it should save me the cost of getting a power meter :slight_smile:

At any rate it also helps me to see what difference a few watts would make on the course. I can do 250-260 watts on an 8 mile TT. For an hour I can hold in the 225-235 range. I find on halfs I tend to go much too hard on the bike and have little left for the run. Based on these models I’m hoping to get some times to shoot for that force me to use a reasonable wattage.

TriDave

5

FWIW I did the sprint tri on the same course last year on my full suspension mtb with semi slicks

total time was 1:04:24 for two laps - I was about 230lbs or so…

most of the front runners in the sprint were clicking off 25 minute or so laps…

6

Wow I plugged in your numbers, assumed 36 spoke wheels, and drag of .7 instead of .5 and came up with roughly 165 watts for you. If the model is right then moving to a TT bike with aero wheels with a good position alone would get you down to 26-27 minutes a lap. saving you 10+ minutes. Not sure how accurate that is… If you get a TT bike and redo the course let us know :slight_smile:

7

You’ve done the quanitative, I’ll do the qualitative.

Each of the out-and-backs is 15km, 7.5 each way. From the T-zone at Hog’s Back, the first 4km or so are gradual descent, then it flattens heading to the turnaround. The 7.5km turnaround is the nasty one - a hard 180 degrees with big old curbing to check your progress if you swing too wide. Heading back to Hog’s Back, there is a quick little rise just after you go under the Bank Street bridge, then a second little rise as you approach Carleton University, then finally a gradual climb to the turnaround. These are the flipside of the descent going out. If the course was stretched out in a long line, these would be the merest of rollers, just blips on the landscape. The turnaround at Hog’s Back is much kinder than the one at 7.5 km, as it incorporates three lanes of roadway instead of the two narrow lanes down at the bottom.

As someone else said, the factor on this course is the wind - if it’s out of the west, the 3-4km heading back up to Hog’s Back can be tedious. But if you look at the posted times for this race in the past, there’s no getting around that it’s a fast one. So your numbers and projected times seem to correlate well.

I’m doing the full iron this year (I did the 1/2 in '01 and '02), and I’m bracing myself for a major mental challenge with 12 of those out-and-backs. I did IMLP last year, and that of course is a physically (that is, topographically) tough race. The Canadian will not be topographically tough, but the mental aspects will be very interesting. If the wind behaves itself, that will help a lot; if not, each of those returns back up to Hog’s Back will loom ominously. But hey - it’s a beautiful little course, and I hope a good time will be had by all. See you there, TriDave!

8

Thanks for the info. Glad I’m not doing the full, that sound like the Esprit triathlon in Montreal, I think that I’d feel like a tennis ball :slight_smile:

Good luck, maybe some of the other speedsters who did the half last year will join you :slight_smile: There were a lot fast folks out there last year!

9

I have the feeling that the speedsters from last year’s 1/2 are regrouping for this year’s 1/2. Devashish Paul from this forum is assembling a bunch of his fast friends for the 1/2, and that’ll be alot of fun to, uh, watch while I work my way through the full 140.6. The start time for the 1/2 is three hours later than the start for the full, and my rough math has some of those guys sprinting for the finish just as I’m setting on the run (well, maybe not quite that bad…). If it’s a hot or otherwise tough day, however, that won’t be great for the psyche!

“Tennis ball”, eh? Hmmmmmm. I’ll have to try to remember to forget that image come race day!

10

I raced the Half Ironman Duathlon on the course (takes place together with the Tri) a few years ago - if you’re good in 180 degree turns its a quite easy course to deal with (as someone else said there are no hills on the course just mild rollers; if you’re used to the LP course, it’s very flat) otherwise you easily loose time on the turns and given the number of turns this can add up - I comfortably had a 2:45hr bike (avg. about 27min per loop; fastest around 26min) and you can time your effort well (e.g., easy first lap, pick it up lap 2-5 and ease into the run for lap 6). Just make sure to count your laps right :slight_smile:

the run is flat as a pancake as well and quite pretty … no shade though so if it’s sunny it get’s pretty hot out there

11

I’ll probably head out this weekend to do the course on my Kuota with Easton Tempest IIs and Oval Concepts A910 aero bars - I still have some fit issues on it so Im not sure how fast I’ll be

is 165 watts good?

12

From what I hear decent cyclists will put out 175 or so for a full Ironman distance bike so it isn’t to shabby. For TT’s and such the numbers I hear around here for the low to mid 50 minute range tend towards the low 300’s. So I guess it is all relative. At any rate based on the fact that you are on a road bike with aerobars, I’ll bet you average 27-28 minutes or so :slight_smile: (depending on traffic etc.)

13

What do you need to analyse for the Ottaw Half Ironman ? Put your head down and hammer until your legs burn and then gear down and jack up your RPM back above 90. Then hammer till your lungs burn and back off. Repeat continuously for 90K. Get off your bike and repeat the same on the run for 21.1K. That is all you need to know. You numbers guy are totally clueless and make this sport more complicated than it is.

14

A) I was had some time this weekend to play with some numbers while doing some other tasks at home, I’m a numbers geek and find it fun to play with

B) I’ve tried that technique and unfortunately somewhere around mile 4-6 of the run my buring lungs join up with my burning legs and both decide to take a break at which point the remainder of the race becomes somthing of a death slog. :slight_smile:

C) When I hold back on the bike somewhat on sprints to Oly’s my runs become much quicker and easier. Case in point doing an F1 duathon, 2 mile R , 10 mile B, 2 mile R, 10 mile B, 2 mile R by keeping my speed reasonable on the bike around 21MPH instead of the 24 I could do if going all out I was able to keep my runs all sub 7:00 minute miles which is roughly how fast I can run for a 10K. I may have gone a little too easy on the bike but had plently left to blast the final run. With a half I seem to have less leway to overdo the bike.

D) Did I say I’m a numbers geek and find it fun :slight_smile: I was working on my actuarial exams in a previous life.

Nothing wrong with your method though I do it on sprints, I just don’t seem to have the miles to do it in halfs :slight_smile: