my friends and i have been arguing about this a lot. i want to know what you guys think.
for the terrorists to win (ie, cause panic and upheaval in greece, and thus bring international attention to themselves) in athens, all they need to do is have one explosion. i don’t think any americans, or anyone else, needs to die, nor do i think that they need to infiltrate any stadiums, olympic villages, or anywhere else to cause the panic.
all they need to do, in my humble opinion, is buy a liter of hard liquor (100 proof or better), a rag, and a lighter. one molotov cocktail, lobbed inconspicuously over a fence, would probably cause such uproar that the olympics might be postponed, cancelled, whatever. especially if anyone was hurt or killed.
They didn’t cancel the olympics in atlanta after the bombing there. I don’t want to pick a fight but I feel most Americans are living in constant fear of attack right now; and in my opinion this means the terrorists have already won.
" feel most Americans are living in constant fear of attack right now; and in my opinion this means the terrorists have already won." – I agree
“They didn’t cancel the olympics in atlanta after the bombing there” – true, but: that was pre-9/11 the media, ioc, etc have been hyping up the security threat for months. as far as i know, there was no suspense or tension buildup before atlanta
I don’t want to pick a fight but I feel most Americans are living in constant fear of attack right now
I don’t think that’s true. Certainly noone I know is living in constant fear.
I think it is true that many Americans seem to want to some sort of iron-clad guarentee of their safety, and not just from terrorism. That’s a problem. But I don’t personally know anyone who is afraid of being a victim of imminent terrorist attack. I think the ho-hum reaction to all the government threat warnings, code oranges, etc is proof of that.
While I haven’t followed the Athens debacle too closely, I would find it difficult to believe that it won’t be the most heavily guarded Olympic event in memory.
I remember when there was the anthrax scare and people were covering their houses in plastic and duct tape was sold out at the hardware stores. That was pretty silly but there are no shortage of people that buy into their fears.
I remember in the mid 90’s while working in a book store, I overheard a guy talking about how he expected the economy to collapse and he was preparing with stored food and weapons. Of course we all saw the largest bull run in the history of the stock market. In general, people are very poor evaluators of risk.
Trust me, this is the most heavily guarded Olympics, by several orders of magnitude, in history.
Then again, Patton once noted that “fortresses are monuments to the stupidity of man!” The problem with planning against terrorist attacks is that you can’t, at least to any significant degree of certainty. The best you can do is have a strong presence, at several levels and areas of concern, AND, you have to constantly change your tactics. The sophistication of the terrorist organizations these days allows them to shift targets and plans nearly as rapidly as targets present themselves. Defense against attacks is only one part of a four part process. . . Any comprehensive approach to terrorist threats must include detection, deterrence, defense, AND mitigation.
Anytime a terrorist(s) change society, even just a little bit, they have won. Look at the upheaval caused by 9/11. We created another entire cabinet and level of bureaucracy because of it. Each time a change is made it provides misguided hope that their “noble” cause is or will succeed.
Americans living their lives without fear is the duty of every American when it comes to terrorists. It’s the only way to demonstrate that terrorism is ineffective.
What is REALLY ineffective are the new institutions we have created like Homeland Security and the TSA. One provides ANOTHER level of red-tape, and the other provides zero help keeping terrorists from airplanes. Terrorism is not happening at a size or scope that is any greater today than it was in the 60’s and 70’s. Back then the attacks were more frequent and less successful. Today they are far less frequent and, as of late, really successful (if one can call it that). It ticks me off to see the choices our leadership Congress and the President have chosen to combat terrorism. Especially when it comes to their disregard for the contstitution, in passing of the Patriot Act. I’m just an ordinary guy who has never done anything illegal (speeding and parking exempted from this statement), and even I’M spooked by the ramifications of the Act.
Living in fear? Yeah, right. I’m sure the government has more info then they are telling us through their leaks and the national news, but I’m more sick and tired of hearing about possible attacks and all their crying wolf. Maybe that’s the terrorist’s plot, get government officials and the people so fed up with the fruitless security measures that we become desensitized and that’s when they strike.
I agree that the Olympics are going to be tense and security will be under a microscope, but I really don’t know any American’s living in fear. Maybe we’re sticking our heads in the sand. Honestly, since 9/11, my life has not changed significantly. My thoughts and views have, but not my daily life.
i’m going to say this at the risk of coming across as an arrogant prick, but i think that the average triathlete is a completely different person than the average american. i think that while most of us kept ourselves pretty well grounded immediately after 9/11, many americans went bananas. i think that because of everything from cnn to sportscenter, the average american has been overwhelmed by the terrorist threat at athens. and yes, they’re probably numb to the threat.
however, i think, based on america’s reaction to 9/11, that a terror attack at athens would a) be blown out of proportion by the media b) result in drastic steps by the ioc, moreso than at atlanta (see the above post) and c) cause upheaval in america by making the average american very afraid.
i, personally, wouldn’t be phased by a terror attack. maybe it’s because i’m israeli, maybe it’s because i watch too many cartoons. i just wasn’t very freaked out by 9/11, and i don’t anticipate being freaked out by what might happen at 9/11. in the same way, i don’t think anyone i know personally was or will be. however, i think that joe and jane sixpack, to coin a phrase, will be.
Then again, Patton once noted that “fortresses are monuments to the stupidity of man!” The problem with planning against terrorist attacks is that you can’t, at least to any significant degree of certainty.
Absolutely agree with that. Which is why this demand on the part of so many for someone to provide perfect security in every realm of life is so problematical. There ain’t no such thing.
“I don’t think that’s true. Certainly noone I know is living in constant fear.”
As someone who lives in Boston and takes the train to work, I can tell you that not a single day goes by when I don’t hear people talking about “What if” scenarios, ranting about terrorism, or otherwise blowing off steam, and it’s getting worse as the Dem Convention approaches.
To a certain extent, I agree that many people are lackadaisical in their response to the warnings, but for those of us who are concerned, we find them very frustrating because of the feeling of helplessness they create. I realize that the world is a dangerous place, and that I could get hit by a car crossing the street, but I only worry about that when I’m actually crossing the street. I don’t need the constant, nonspecific reminder that I could die horribly at any moment and there’s nothing I can do to protect myself.
i, personally, wouldn’t be phased by a terror attack. maybe it’s because i’m israeli
That is exactly why terroism doesn’t phase you. Americans aren’t used to having shit blow up on a daily basis in their own backyards.
My completely jaded view is that the IOC doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the athletes or the host city. All they care about is perpetuating their existence, and growing their Olympic enterprise as much as possible. If they weren’t interested in cancelling the Olympics after the events in Munich '72, they won’t now. They’ll use the “if we cave, the terrorists will win” excuse to carry on.
Unless, of course, the insurance they took out is enough to placate whatever TV network has the broadcast rights in the US…
I particularly demand focus on detection, deterrence, and mitigation. Any common criminal can find loopholes in even the best laid defense plan. Static airport screening presents NO OBSTACLE to terrorist organizations bent on conducting operations there. And the longer we rely on them as front-line defenses, the less valid they become as any sort of deterrent. No. . .VERY active detection operations, constantly shifting deterrents, and well thought out mitigation techniques are the best course. If you have to go into defense mode, you are at the terrorist’s mercy.
Of course the difficulty in conducting active detection lies in its inevitable encroachment upon personal rights. . .That is the price of freedom. Thank God for our slow-acting, self-correcting form of government, that doesn’t usually tolerate attacks on personal rights and privacy for any length of time. . .Knee jerk reactions like the initial Patriot Act meet the “reasonable man” soon enough. . .
**Of course the difficulty in conducting active detection lies in its inevitable encroachment upon personal rights. . .That is the price of freedom. **This is why I favor swift and violent justice dealing as opposed to active detection as a means of deterrence.
** Thank God for our slow-acting, self-correcting form of government, that doesn’t usually tolerate attacks on personal rights and privacy for any length of time. . .Knee jerk reactions like the initial Patriot Act meet the “reasonable man” soon enough. . .** I sure hope so.
Personally, I don’t get it. I don’t see why we are so worked up over “terrorism” when many major cities in this country have over 400 murders per year on average. Yes, 9/11 was a tragedy, no doubt about it, but the fact remains: combine the murder rates of Detroit, DC, Atlanta, Miami and LA and you easily surpass the death toll of that day EVERY FRIGGIN’ YEAR. I don’t see billions of dollars being spent to rectify that problem; I don’t see nightly reports on what we are doing to stem that tide; and I don’t see the president making speeches about what we are doing about our problems right here at home.
I have NEVER worried about being murdered at home, why the heck would what some maniac in the middle of the dessert is planning concern me in the least?
What constitutional provisions does the PATRIOT Act violate?
Unlawful search and seizure: Libraries and booksellers are required to turn over a list of items purchased and it is a felony to disclose that they were even contacted.
Speedy trial / face your accuser: The government can hold anyone indefinitely, without charge or contact with counsel if you’re a “terrorist”.
I’d list more but the 10,000 page PATRIOT act is a classified document so it’s hard to tell which rights are being trampled on.