Might as well start another OT Bush thread before someone else does.
GWB was interviewed on Arab TV this morning. I watched the interview at lunch time and thought he came off very inarticulate and amateurish. And by that I mean substance as well as style. He actually seemed nervous and unprepared. I don’t even believe he offered an apology for what happened. I don’t think he made that many points in the Arab world.
Of course this is just my opinion. Let’s hear yours.
Bush??? Inarticulate??? Amateurish???
NO!
Didn’t see it. I’m working.
I didn’t see it but have read the transcript and I would say I was expecting a bit more. It would be nice to hear an apology but I am sure he was advised against it. Although I don’t have any idea what the arrangements were for the interview it was obviously not an open interview. The interviewers seemed really soft on him. I think it was basically a press conference.
The apology came from lower on the food chain. I though the speech was fairly weak too.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/05/iraq.abuse.main/index.html
"The interviewers seemed really soft on him. I think it was basically a press conference. "
My thoughts also, but the interview was on the US sponsored Al-Arabiya network, so I guess that was predictable.
President Bush is not one of the better camera personalities this country has had at the helm.
Perhaps two of the best were Reagan and Kennedy. Additionally, President Bush has inherited one of the most difficult presidencies history has ever served up.
I don’t pretend to make excuses for the man, he does not need it. My opinion, and I certainly repsect your disagreement, is that he has done a fine job in difficult circumstances.
As I have said before: Show me the man who would do better.
And just as a potentially thought-provoking aside, if we were having this discussion about Saddam Hussein on a forum in Iraq two years ago his secret police would find us and, in all likelyhood, end our lives.
**Additionally, President Bush has inherited one of the most difficult presidencies history has ever served up. **Now that’s just ridiculous. More challenging than Washington’s? Lincolns? Wilson’s? Roosevelts? Kennedy’s? Bush has had to face a difficult situation in the aftermath of 9/11. That’s a far cry from having one of the most difficult presidencies in history.
**And just as a potentially thought-provoking aside, if we were having this discussion about Saddam Hussein on a forum in Iraq two years ago his secret police would find us and, in all likelyhood, end our lives. **Or in North Korea, or in any one of a couple of dozen nations. So what?
Al-Arabiya is not US sponsored or supported.
Al Hurra, which broadcast the first interview, is funded by the US.
"Saddam Hussein on a forum in Iraq two years ago "
Have you heard the speech?
We associate Hussein with torture but now the entire world sees American soldiers doing the same thing to Iraqui’s. Not a positive image and a difficult one for any president to tip toe around. I don’t understand why his speech didn’t include an apology.
Oh Tommy:
Your argument is so thin I can see right through it: you know Bush has screwed up this nation more than any other president. Your right wing propaganda is just plain ridiculous (and getting more so). I’ll also include your glorification of the pitiable GI Joe mentality which is just so much macho tripe. Now be a good boy and go help one of your customers.
What I love is the way administration officials keep referring to the ongoing investigation into “allegations of abuse.”
“Allegations”?
Haven’t they seen the pictures?
What actually disturbs me most about the photos is the thought of what was done to these guys to get them to do these things. You know their captors did not just ask them to please get into a naked pyramid and place their feet in their buddy’s ass. I have no doubt that these guys had the hell beaten out of them.
And now there is new information about more than 30 deaths of Iraqis in US custody.
I am frankly surprised at all the outrage. Did people really think that this kind of behavior was NOT happening?
This is from the US Army site:
http://cryptome.org/army-report.htm
(S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:
a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women’s underwear;
f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;
i. (S) Writing “I am a Rapest” (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;
j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee’s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;
k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;
m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.
AND THERE’S MORE:
a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;
b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;
c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;
d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;
e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;
f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;
g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.
h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.
Kerouac,
You appear to believe yourself to be some amazing political pundit, yet you fail to bring anything of substance to any discussion. You seem to believe that being a democrat means insulting republican intelligence and coming off as a self-involved elitist. I am a democrat and disagree with practically all the republican policies and ideas from this administration, but the point of discussion is to share viewpoints not insult those who don’t agree with you. I am pleading you to stop with your senseless drivel and return when you actually have something to talk about.
-P.S. You are very inspiring and an awfully huge deutchsebag! (perhaps you can insult me on not knowing how to properly spell d-bag, I must not be as well educated as you! But hopefully I am more mature.)
14 prisoner deaths under investigation Cases are among 25 prison fatalities in Iraq, Afghanistan MSNBC News Services Updated: 1:28 p.m. ET May 05, 2004
WASHINGTON - The number of prisoner deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan known to be under U.S. investigation or already blamed on Americans stood at 14 on Wednesday.
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The Army disclosed that it is conducting criminal investigations of 10 prisoner deaths in U.S. custody in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus another 10 abuse cases.
In addition, the deaths of two Iraqi prisoners already have been ruled homicides, the Army said Tuesday. In one case, a soldier was court-martialed, reduced in rank and discharged from the Army. In the other case, a CIA contract interrogator’s conduct has been referred to the Justice Department for criminal prosecution, the Army said.
Intelligence officials also have told NBC News that two other prisoner deaths are under investigation by the CIA’s Inspector General. An intelligence official told The Associated Press on Wednesday that one of the deaths took place at an Afghan prison near the Pakistan border in June 2003 and involved an independent contractor working for the CIA. The other death occurred at another, unspecified location in Iraq and involved a CIA interrogator, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
A dozen deaths under investigation
That means that in total, U.S. officials have acknowledged two prisoner deaths they consider to be homicides, and are investigating another 12 deaths.
Reuters on Tuesday reported that a total of 25 prisoner deaths have occurred in Iraq and Afghanistan, quoting an unidentified U.S. Army official as saying that 12 prisoners were found to have died either of natural or undetermined causes and one was ruled a justifiable homicide because it occurred while a prisoner was trying to escape. The vast majority of the deaths occurred in Iraq, not Afghanistan, according to the official, who did not provide an exact breakdown.
The official said that in the two murder cases, a soldier was found guilty in the U.S. military justice system of shooting a prisoner to death in September at a detention center in Iraq and that another prisoner was killed at the Abu Ghraib jail near Baghdad in November by a private contractor who worked as an interrogator for the CIA.
The soldier was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time, the official said. The official said that the soldier shot the prisoner after the prisoner had thrown rocks at the soldier and that the soldier was found to have used excessive force.
The official said that because the CIA contractor was not in the U.S. military, no legal action was taken because of lack of jurisdiction, but Army officials referred the case to the Justice Department for possible action. The official did not offer details of that killing.
10 abuse cases also probed
In addition, the official said 10 more abuse cases were being investigated, nine of them involving allegations of assault and the other involving allegations of sexual assault.
Senior military and Bush administration officials are bracing for broader investigations. “I expect that as these investigations track down all the possible leads that there will be more things that will need to be looked at very, very carefully,” Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Wednesday in an appearance on CBS’ “The Early Show.”
“As they chase the various elements, more people come forward with bits and pieces they think they might have and that leads you to look at other things,” Pace said. “So there will be more investigations. Where that will lead I don’t know.”
Other administration officials tried to assure the American public and the world that the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad was an aberration, and that guilty parties would be dealt with swiftly and firmly. They listed a host of investigations under way, as members of Congress called for their own probe. The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
Goose:
You write:
“You are very inspiring and an awfully huge deutchsebag!”
You’re right. That was inspiring. Thanks.
Matt:
You ask:
"In what ways has Bush “screwed up this nation more than any other president?”
And what planet are you writing to us from today?
Matt:
I’m with Brian on this:
“I think he’s doing a fine job and look forward to having him as our leader for another term.”
You both won me over with your honest and non-elitist opinions. I don’t know what I was thinking by reading so much.
Consider me a another vote for Bush.
Thanks for straightening me out.
Matt:
It doesn’t matter now that I’m on your side.
Bush in '04! The best man for the job!
I really do feel better already.
Thanks. You’re right. That was inspiring.
Matt:
“intelligent debate”
???
Does not compute.
Bush in '04!
America #1
I also read today that the pres is going to ask Congress for 25 BILLION more dollars for Iraq. That is despite his prior assurance, at the time of asking for the 87 BILLION, that he would not ask for any more money until after the election.
It is like a giant credit card without a limit.