Anyone know if there is any significant differences between the original Predator suit and the newer Speedsuit?
I believe the Speedsuit was first. When I bought mine in '99, it was significantly less than the Predator (prior to Predator II). It’s tight (I normally wear L jersey and M shorts, so that complicates things as well) it’s stiff and the collar is a real choker. Body Glide won’t do the job, I use petroleum jelly, and lots of it.
I wear a 7, if you want to buy it cheap, because I’m looking for any excuse to upgrade…
I use a Speed Suit and have no complaints… It is however my first Full and I’m not too sure if my shoulder fatigue is caused by the suit or the fact that I am swimming for extra long distances , OR… because my strength training has been absent for many many MANY months now. Anyway, I went with the Speed Suit because I really could find no significant differences between the two.
Oreo
"It is however my first Full and I’m not too sure if my shoulder fatigue is caused by the suit or the fact that I am swimming for extra long distances "
well, heck, i’ve been much loved on this board for my political views, perhaps it’s time to throw a wrench in the works and cause a bit of disgruntlement (is that a word?).
here’s the dirty little secret about your tired shoulders. it’s very possibly the suit.
orca has exquisite workmanship. and bad patterns…
…in this one regard. their suits have ALWAYS (imho) been too short in the torso. why haven’t they fixed this problem? i don’t know. either they don’t know how, or they don’t feel they have to in order to sell suits. however, it is in my view the suit most likely to cause you shoulder fatigue of ANY suit in the market. if workmanship is your issue, buy this suit. if shoulder flexibility is your issue, buy aquaman, ironman, orca, QR, or T1.
caveat: if you’re short in the torso, no problem. if you’re a woman, no problem (because you’re probably correspondingly short in the torso). if you’re sponsored, no problem. if you’re none of these, consider passing this brand by unless you can try it on first before buying.
there, i’ve said it. i hope you’ll vote for me anyway.
Slowman I will always welcome and respect your insight and opinions, and of course I WISH I could vote for the petition, but alas, because I am returning to the sport after a LONG absence due to injury, I am not a current member. I would vote for the petition FWIW.
Anyway, lol, thanks for the insight on Orca… I’m not short in the torso, I’m not a chick , and I have not seen a sponsor since 91, lol.
Adding to what you mentioned, and remembering that I feel a significant “reach” issue while in my suit, it makes perfect sense that a shortened torso could lead to my shoulder fatigue.
Thanks again.
Oreo
“I second the short torso.”
here is something i don’t understand. if you look at the recent posts on orca on this board it’s obvious this is an apparent issue. further, when i tallk to the big wetsuit dealers, and even some distributors, they pretty much all acknowledge this pattern problem orca has. so, why do you guys buy these suits in reasonably high numbers?
funny you mention that, my first suit was an Orca, I thought it fit well, I do have a short torso. However, Emilio got a hold of me, I switched to the T1 and have never looked back. I always hated that cold water creeping up the back zipper feeling when I first went in the water. I rented an Ironman before that and think the neck is way too high. Can we go back to bitching about the USAT election now? what happened to your buddy since you called him out?
if shoulder flexibility is your issue, buy aquaman, ironman, orca, QR, or T1.
I would add Xterra. Granted, it is my first wetsuit so I do not claim to be an expert. But I am 6’7" and was very focused on torso length and shoulder flexibility in general. I tried a bunch of suits on, including the Stealth and T1. The QR Supersuit and the Xterra VectorPro (which I bought) were tops by far.
I’ll tell you how/why I ended up in one:
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dealers and distributors may know about the problem, but they sure as heck won’t tell the customer about the problem when that’s all they’re stocking.
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for anyone but the most experienced triathlete, this is not something that you’ll discover on your own when trying on wetsuits in a dressing room. Heck, most people don’t even know how to put on a wetsuit properly.
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consumers tend to buy what they see others using, and there are a lot of Orca suits out there (as you’ve noted).
So, as a novice triathlete, I saw others wearing Orca, I saw Pro’s wearing Orca, I saw lots of nice ads for Orca in Triathlete, it’s what I was able to find locally most easily, and I had no real idea what a wetsuit was supposed to fit like. It was almost inevitable that I’d end up in one. The real question is, how many people buy a second Orca. I can assure you that I’m not.
“dealers and distributors may know about the problem, but they sure as heck won’t tell the customer about the problem when that’s all they’re stocking.”
i tell you what. why don’t you guys each forward this thread in an email to your LBS owner? maybe it’ll make the LBS think about other things besides simply what margin he’s getting, what terms of sale are offered, and how much advertising backs up the brand. at some point retailers need to consider the functionality of the products they carry, and i’m finding that quite a few of them don’t do that these days.
You’d be surprised how many athletes I know who have NEVER heard of slowtwitch.com
It’s simple for me… I am totally new to this forum business and had no idea that these things were so useful for gaining practical user opinions. So, as with the others, I investigated what I saw others using, studied advertising and information provided by retailers etc… The price was right as well. So, nowhere did I see mention of needing a short torso and in my region, I didn’t have the opportunity to try one on. However, even if I had, besides the obvious lack of fit, I would have never been able to predict the torso flaw based on a dry fit test.
It’s not that big of a deal really, and besides, since when is the swim a conclusive factor in any triathlon event? I’ll just get used to the fit characteristics and do my best to rock on the bike and run. To be honest, the only reason I use one is to equalize the advantage gained by EVERYONE else wearing one.
Oreo
ok…im an ex swimmer who has just recently got into tris. i have an orca speedsuit. i find it excellant. i haven’t noticed ANY shoulder fatigue at all wearing my wetsuit. in fact my shoulders get less tired wearing it vs without it. if your shoulders are getting tired from swimming, then maybe it’s your swimming that is at fault. most triathletes/people who do triathlons are crap swimmers. let’s face it. my swimming is nowhere near as good as it was when i was a swimmer, yet i still find myself coming out of the water real close to the front.
you’d be surprised at how wicked your shoulders feel when you’re swimming well. they do get tired, but you can generate alot more force. are your arms relaxed when going above the water? if theyre not that can cause shoulders to fatigue alot faster…if you’re not flexible in shoulder area that doesnt help either. so maybe work on those areas and not blame shoulder fatigue on wetsuit…
i got myself a size 5 orca speedsuit and it does the business for me.
oreo…you talked about a reach issue relative to your wetsuit…how flexible are you in the shoulders? can u swing your arms around (outside of water) relatively easy ?
well, gotta say i’m surprised about how many negative responses there have been to orcas products.
i have the full predator 2. love it. feel fine swimming in it… no problems with my arms or it fitting small. and, i have abnormally long arms.
consider this one vote for orca… but, ALWAYS try it on first. just because it does/doesn’t fit us does/doesn’t mean it won’t fit you.
yeah i cant believe people wouldnt try on a wetsuit before buying it.
i’ve got a pretty good memory for certain things, and it seemed to me you’d posted some interesting stuff before. as memory serves, you’re a kiwi, and you live on the north island as does the folks at orca’s headquarters, and in the hometown of bevan docherty, recent world champ and star orca athlete. you’re also a very good swimmer yourself, probably not too far from bevan’s swim speed, and it would seem to me plausible that you’re often swimming with a lot of these orca athletes frequenting the swim clubs of taupo and thereabouts.
therefore, it makes sense that you’re recent introduction to tri would be one in which orca would be the first wetsuit with which you’d come in contact. it’s a fine wetsuit, and i feel the workmanship is pretty much as good as it comes in this product category.
i remember, however, when i made the very first wetsuits built specifically for triathletes. orca’s fine wetsuits were basically of the style i was making at the time (in fact, it’s still the same style). thing was, back then the wetsuits were almost as fast as they are now. i’d put up one of my 1987 QRs against all the wetsuits of today, and simply in terms of speed i think the old QR would give as good as it gets. however, the suits today are much, much more comfortable, the rubber is softer, the necks are better, they’re just a lot more fun to swim in. i’d much rather swim in today’s orca than a 1980s QR, no question about that.
i project this truism onto your experience (i hope you don’t mind, me being an 25-year triathlete and a 47-year-old swimmer, and you being a later comer) and i think to myself, “p’raps the young man operates under the same paradigm–that is, it seems fast, seems comfortable, seems good, but to what would i compare it?”
i apologize in advance if i gave the impression that orca suits aren’t up to the task. the utility expected of an orca is going to be delivered to its customer. i should’ve said in the beginning that i was speaking about an orca in comparison to other suits costing anywhere from $250 to $500, which used to be considered a lot of money.
also, there are certain athletes that are going to fit BETTER in an orca than in, say, an ironman, because it goes without saying that if orca’s suits have a shorter torso than other suits, then those with short torso’d bodies are going to find other suits too long in the mid-section.
“i have abnormally long arms.”
see, this is the thing. you are so right. it’s high time the industry started realizing that it’s not just features, but just like bikes or shoes or anything else, different wetsuit companies build suits for different bodies (well, they don’t do it on purpose, but when the patterns are done it sort of comes out that way).
if you’ve got long arms, i’m assuming you’ve also got long legs. well, let’s put it another way. i don’t think you’d consider your arms long if you were 7’ tall. your arms are long in relation to your torso. if you’ve got long limbs relative to your overall height, ipso facto you have a short torso, and an orca is going to very likely be a good fit for you (and not as good a fit for all these other people who’re posting).
my thesis here is that you’re in a minority population, and retailers aren’t recognizing this. it would be like retailers only stocking triple wide new balance shoes because they get a good margin on them and the colors are pretty. yes, that’s true, but there also ought to be a staple of other suits in stock that fit the majority population.
heh you do have a good memory. i guess my patriotism was coming out to a certain extent. i think it’s pretty awesome how a company from new zealand has as big a market share on the world stage as orca seems to.
i’ve never swum with bevan, but have seen him down at the pools. only orca sponsored athlete ive swum with his sister, fiona, who incidentally won powerman zofingen or however you spell it. orca is definitely the dominant brand here, altho ironman wetsuits do seem to be popular as well. another local boy, bryan rhodes is sponsored by them i think…and cam brown of course as well.
i know what u mean about comfortable wetsuits. i surf as well, and my orca wettie is sooooo much more comfortable.
you are right, i dont have anything to compare it with (apart from wearing a short arm, short sleeve surfing wetsuit in an ocean swim which was about 2 sizes too small at the time).
orca wetsuits probably do suit my body type as i do have a shorter mid section as opposed to legs i guess. but it does feel very good around my shoulders. lots of flexibility and freedom to move. thats what i was basing my comments on.
I lOVE my orca speedsuit, but I fall into one of the above mentioned categories: I am a chick. It wasn’t so much the short torso feature, but the fuller cut through the hips and thighs - I’m not that big and am properly proportioned, but can’t cram myself into Ironman, xterra, or anything else. thank you orca!
Whatever… It should be obvious that I have not made any serious conclusions regarding my Orca Speed Suit, and as I stated in my first post, my shoulder fatigue could be any number of things. The IM distances, my absence of strength training, or even my new wetsuit. As I said, it’s my first full suit, as my other is a QR sleeveless from the mid-90’s, and it could be a simple matter of getting used to it. The main reason for my questioning the suit is, in part, because Dan’s research and knowledge has raised some potential causes, AND the fact that the shoulder fatigue only occurs while I’m wearing it. I have no shoulder fatigue OR reach issues when not wearing the suit.
Regarding not trying on a suit before purchasing one as being stupid, well… there’s a big assumption in that statement that the person has access to a retailer. In my case, the closest retailer is 300 miles away. Furthermore, it’s assuming that the individual would be able to make an accurate assessment of the suits fit, function, and flexibility based on a dry fit test. Besides any obvious fit issues, there is no way in hell I’d be able to determine or predict a certain degree of shoulder fatigue without actually swimming in the suit first. Yeah right, like that’s an option. In addition to this, your assuming the retailer is trained in the art of wetsuit selection, size, and fit… My guess, their staff training comes straight out the same brochure that’s available to the general public.
Lets be clear… my point was to answer the original inquiry regarding the Orca wetsuits, NOT to decipher my shoulder tightness. I do appreciate the insight provided and any constructive means presented, but I’m most certainly not looking to be told I suck at swimming because I’m a triathlete and that MUST be the root of my problem.
Sorry to be blunt, but my final assessment of the Orca is far from complete… It’s a work in progress.
Oreo