Opinions on coaches? (use real names here!)

Triathlon Forum
22

You guys don’t understand because you still have mother’s milk in your mouths.

My neighbors, whose average age is about 75, think I am absolutely loony. (Ok, it isn’t entirely because I dress in funny clothes!) Do I care? Well, yes and no. I do care what others think about many issues, including me. To say otherwise would be foolish and is the sort of over self-absorption I try to avoid. (Although, triathletes must be the MOST self absorbed jocks I’ve ever met.) I don’t let their views control my life, but I try to listen to and consider even the most repulsive of views. When I was young I thought listening was a sign of caring, though now I realize I’ve really always done it because I’m usually at least amused, but often astounded by the views I hear. But, the real point is this: how realistic is it for a guy my age to have a coach? No one can answer that question except me, ultimately, but plenty of folks have opinions. I’m willing to bet the vast majority of guys logging on here do not have a coach and many would have some of the same concerns I have.

Anyway, when a high school kid signs up for track he expects a coach. A recreational, VERY MATURE adult, doesn’t expect a coach, and I would venture to say that the overwhelming majority of age-groupers would think a 60 year old having a coach is the dumbest thing they’d ever heard. Maybe I’m wrong. When I was 40 I was so interested in winning I would have done it. At 60, winning is defined as getting to the race with all your equipment! And, I have so many sports injuries from baseball, wrestling, ski racing, motorcycle racing, bike racing, track, tennis, weight lifting, etc. that getting out of bed can sometimes be a major feat. Right now I’m totally blasted from training with my buddy on weights. I can barely move. (As a somewhat humorous aside I should note that he is an ex world power lifting champion and he does give me quite a few “tips”. :slight_smile: )

Another problem is many younger people are not comfortable with ambivalence. I spent my life dealing with people and employees so I’m always trying to find the seventh side to a “box” argument! I’m not just ambivalent about winning, I have a hundred different views, at least, on what really comprises the essence of sport. To me, playing is much more important than winning, and sometimes I just want to play at a very low intensity, although I still have enough of a spark of competitive spirit to show up for the races. Most guys my age have almost ZERO competitive spirit. Count and compare the number of entrants in my age group versus the 40-45 age group. Almost all the guys who are left racing at 60 are very competitive and fit. Many of them will beat the bottom half of the 40-45 age group because that group is filled with out of shape middle aged males. But, the majority of guys my age just quit racing and training and head for the shuffle board courts in St. Pete. :), j/k (Yes, injuries, illness, and death take a large percentage, but most of the guys just have no desire. One 70 year old said to me: “Why should I keep doing this?” I responded: “If you don’t have an answer, you shouldn’t be doing it!”)

I am a strong believer in the power of a great coach. I knew several great coaches, including a personal friend who was an NFL coach, and they have my undieing admiration and loyalty. For young athletes I think a coach is ESSENTIAL. If I were 20-40 and very serious about racing I would not be training myself. (I believe the parallel is the lawyer who represents himself in court. He has an idiot for a client!) Only a coach can have the psychic distance to tell you when you are making a major training error. The self-trained guys like Dave Scott are very rare. I’ll bet for every Dave Scott there are a thousand DEAD SCOTTS who have made stupid training errors that interrupted their training or worse.

As for Ms. White, I’ve read everything she’s written here, and I hold her in the highest regard. If I get a coach and she is available, I couldn’t think of a better person. This may sound sexist but I suspect for obsessive compulsive male triathletes a female coach might have some of the qualities that are essential for “staying alive”. (with apologies to the BeeGees)

All of which misses the point I was really trying to get to, I guess inartfully, which is: “When do you need a coach?”

Sorry for the long, boring post.

-Robert

23

Cathy:

I had already read your race report!

That’s why I asked YOU the question.

I think last October I posted a message about the near miniscule number of females who have completed an IM. Something like 0.000013% of American females! For me, that puts your finish in perspective, regardless of how well you placed, which is irrelevant. (I’d like to pause her for a comment about what appears at first blush to be politically correct banter. I really do believe that the heart and soul of ALL sport is the age-grouper who is out there using his/her body the way God intended, i.e., vigorously. Regardless of result. Winning or placing high has too much emphasis in my view.)

Ok, Toto, are we still in Kansas? :),

-Robert, who is almost over himself.

24

Chappy: This may sound corny, but having the Tribe at the finish line really was an uplifting experience, particularly this year with that grueling bike course. Yes, after a 13 year layoff I’m almost back in shape! I’m doing IM FL this year so I probably will do the Half GFT as a tuneup. But, I’m going to stick around and root all you guys to the finish line.

I’m getting so serious about this stuff that getting a coach has been on my mind for several months. But, I feel a bit stupid for considering it.

-Robert

25

the answer to the question, “when do you need a coach?” is, “when you want to have one.” it’s the same answer i’d give to him who asks, “when do you need a jaguar?”

you’re 60 years old, and a triathlete. you’ve earned the right to be self-absorbed, haven’t you? i’m 45 and i’ve decided to take early self-absorption.

26

Ah Robert, get out of the Midwest!! Then you’ll go back and really won’t give a hoot about what the neighbors think. In fact, you may realize it’s GOOD to be a little different. At Christmas, I went with my mom to her water aerobics class thing three times and I was introduced to every person saying, “She does those Ironman triathlons.” (with definite pride in Mom’s voice)

Now, about a coach…why not? Do old tennis players or golfers still work with the club house pro? Come to California and you’ll find pretty much most of triathletes (of all ages) either already working with a coach, considering it, or bugging their tri club to set up a training program for X race. It’s really quite normal here. And, there are lots of fast (and not so fast) people at the races in your age group.

For me, I have-assed my way through some sprints, an Olympic distance and a half ironman, but I needed a plan to complete an IM, and I didn’t want to sit down and figure it out for myself. Therefore, use a coach. Best thing I ever did. I currently do not have one since it was either a coach or a brand new truck, but I do have a few folks I can consult with. But, I’ll have one again in the future.

Take the plunge! I think you’ll be glad you did. And, he/she would have probably kept you from feeling blasted by the weights. ha

27

I have to second the recommendation for Allan at http://www.smartsportintl.com . I’ve been working with him for almost a year now and have really come around to his way of thinking. It took some convincing as he really focuses on quality over quantity. Not to mention I have been continuously surprised at his availability. Calls and email are answered same day without fail. Workouts are generally given on a two week basis, but if something comes up he will change them on the fly. To say he is reasonably priced would be an understatement.

Mark S.

28

Dan’s point number 8 … capped at a dozen athletes is the most critical one I think. I have been doing the tri-thing for 13 years and was a competitive runner for 12 years prior to that and always train/coach myself. I am considering getting a coach this year. I have had a good deal of success just training myself (a couple of sub 10 ironman races and lots of age group wins in shorter distances) but I think that a coach might help me put the pieces together more subjectively and scientifically than I do myself. The reason that I think that having a coach with a small number of athletes under their wing is important is that when you go with the “large commercial” coaching systems you are just getting a pre-packaged program in most cases. I’ve seen some of these and they are no different than what I do now. A coach that you communicate with regularly and get feedback from will provide that extra bit of knowledge or insight into your training that you miss yourself. I believe that I read a Tinley quote that was something about most multisport athletes don’t need a coach to tell them what to do, they need a coach to tell them what not to do. You only get this type of attention when your coach has a small stable of athletes.

That said … I still haven’t decided on whether to get a coach or just hammer out another season and rely on family/work responsibilities to keep me from overdoing it. When I have a detailed plan I tend to get a little too obsessive-compulsive … rare in triathletes :slight_smile:

29

In response to Allen’s post:

there are basically three types of Multisport coaching business’ out there:

  1. the full time independents, like myself and Julianne White to name a few. This is what we do full time.

  2. the part time independents, they work a full time job during the day and come home and between other duties, coach on the side.

  3. the big boys, CTS, Mutlisports.com etc.

so when someone says they keep a light load so that they can concentrate more on a few individual clients, see if they are doing this full time, or as a side to their full time job. There is a big difference. The coach that works with 10 clients after he/she is done working an 8 hour day is different from the coach that is working with double or triple that, but that is their full time job. Numbers don’t always dictate level of service.

There are good coaches available in all three types of services, and there are some that aren’t. It is a very individual thing. I know from this side, I have some clients that I work very well with, and I have had some clients that just were not a good fit in my system. No one coach works great for every single person. Find the fit that is best for you. Ask a lot of questions, expect to give feedback. Unless you are looking for a prepackaged program (some are), if the potential coach isn’t interested in your feedback, your schedule outside of training, and doesn’t seem to answer your questions, move on.

That being said, I have only worked with one triathlon specific coach ever. She’s married to some old recluse guy that lives in the mountains. It was years ago before the market exploded with coaches, and I was very happy with the services recieved.

30

Robert, this is my second tri(y) at triathlon as I quit in '85 and started all over in '01. I was 63 when I started again and haven’t looked back. I think I need a coach as I want to be as competitive as I can be and as the sage Yogi said,“if you don’t win, you lose.” It sure is fun trying to catch the Don Ardells, Jimmy Flemings and Bob Alts of this world. It is also fun to catch one of your 40 year old friends in a race. Let Ms White or Mr. Plumb see if she/he can get that “aged” body to catch up with that fertile mind.I think I will give Mike a call when I get to SF for Valentines Day.

Bob Sigerson

31

one thing… i was not precisely correct in what i wrote on this point (i have been corrected by the coach herself). she WAS capped at a dozen, but has since relieved herself of certain other time-consuming obligations and now has upped that number (i don’t know, 15 or 16, i’m not sure).

but the point remains the same. you only have so many hours in the day as a coach. if you are yourself in training, and you have camps, and other coaches you supervise, and office people you supervise, and you also coach, it’s a tough go. some things fall through the cracks i think.

in that sense i think it’s like being an artist. once you have a lot of other business obligations on your plate, it’s hard to create your art.

32

As Dan says, JulieAnne has freed up her schedule a bit this
year, and so she will be able to take more than 12 athletes in her full-time roster. Additionally, she’s now able to offer some one-on-one work with athletes who visit her in Southern California. She also handles a handful of “special cases” each year, like her now well-known work with Peter Reid. And she’s agreed to take the likes of me on again, in an advisory way, as I work through a challenge I’ve laid out for myself this year. So while I won’t be coached by JulieAnne, I’m thrilled to say I’ll have her advice. She’s working with Melissa Spooner as she makes a comeback this year, too, after a year spent caring for her husband, Chris. And she’s working with John Dermengian, a challenged athlete who is working to qualify for Kona. Those are just a few, but that should give you an idea of the range of athletes that JulieAnne can reach.

Amy White
Seaside, CA

33

Well, here goes the BIG ADVENTURE!!! I started my first day with JulieAnne as my coach!!! I have used numerous other coaches in the past. But there was something that “struck” me about using JulieAnne as a coach. I do not know what it was but, I am looking forward to having her working with me this season (and more???)!!!

Jim

34

I also have used Sonni Dyer @ TriMyCoach.com. He was a lot of helping in beefing up my running leg and overall endurance, but what I liked best was his good grasp of the work/recovery cycle. There was a weekly day off, and on that day each week I was really, really glad to have it. In between those, I never ever felt too run down to do the day’s scheduled session.

35

Just thought I’d share my experience with coach Mike Ricci. www.d3multisport.com … while I am new to the sport, he is not. He has a diverse group of clients, from Hawaii finishers to novices. What I’ve found is that he has the experience as a coach to focus on what I need. He introduced me to new training concepts that helped me shave time off my marathon and safely finish a 1/2 irondistance - with a good time to top it all off! I found his email and phone attention to be a great balance and value. His methods are simple enough for me to follow and challenging enough to keep me motivated. He has several levels of service which makes his program attractive for every budget (if I can swing it … anyone can). The results are there if you follow the plan!

36

Interesting discussion! Here in Denmark I can just join a specifik local triathlon club and receive a personal program from our former national coach who lead Peter Sandvang to three long distance world championchips, victory at IM NZ and more. The coach himself has won the worlds toughest IM in Embrun, France.

Well, lucky me :slight_smile:

Regards

Martin

37

you are lucky. gabor kloczl is one of the premier long-distance coaches in the world.