I have updated the web page to include a quicktime movie of some interviews of people at IM LP to try to transmit what the cranks are really about.
Anyhow, would like some feedback from the real world as to whether the download time and quality of the movie is acceptable and, for you PC’ers out there, if you think there is something else I should include or exclude in future atempts along these lines?
Thanks.
Frank
OK, so then, where is the website?
if you think there is something else I should include or exclude in future atempts along these lines?
Not sure if you were just referring to the videos, but you might want to remove crap like this:
"We believe that it will be possible to, eventually – with a lot of hard work over 5 or 10 years, most people will be able to almost double the power obtainable now using conventional training techniques, through the combination of involving new muscle mass and improving pedaling efficiency. "
Yeah, I’m gonna put out 550W for an hour. I guess if by “most people” you are including the several billion people who’ve never even seen a bicycle, then you may have a point.
Here we go!
I was just referring to the videos and trying to avoid pissing contests but now that you brought it up.
Exactly what is “crap” about espousing my “belief” as to what is possible for “most” people. In fact, in the video of interest Joe indicated he had increased his speed from 20 to 28 mph over 3 years. That calculates to substantually more than a doubling of power in that period of time (270% to be exact, it might even be higher if his aerodynamics have chaanged from “sitting up” more on PC’s). The belief comes from observations of what is possible in the reports I receive from customers and in my analysis of where these improvements are coming from and what i believe the potential is.
Frank
Exactly what is “crap” about espousing my “belief” as to what is possible for “most” people.
Frank, everyone I race and train with (roadies and triathletes) puts out between ~250W and ~400W for an hour. Not a single one of them could possibly double their power output in one year, five years or ten years. Not one. No matter what training or drugs they took. Only people like Indurain (and maybe only Indurain) could do 500W for an hour, and nobody I know is Indurain.
So who are “most” people"? I’ve got to believe you are referring to untrained people. Your oft-cited someone who does 20mph for a 12mi TT was putting out only about 150W, if they were aero. That’s untrained, in my book. (By the way, can you point me to a Web page with race results for “Joe” averaging over 27mph? Thanks).
You can’t post on this thread, you’re pure PC evil 
.
I am sorry, but the “average” customer does not put out over 250 watts for an hour. In fact, I would be surprised if the “average” person at this site averages 250 watts for an hour.
Further, I believe those now sustaining 250 watts could, potentially, double. I doubt those currently sustaining 400 watts would double, but they certainly can improve, and improve substantially, in my humble opinion.
How on earth can you call someone who has done an IM “untrained”? They may not be optimally trained, but they are not “untrained” compared to the sedentary. People like you are elitist. Of course, someone like that can improve without PC’s, but we are talking about improving without increasing the number of hours training or dedicating their life to cycling or running.
BTW, Joe’s 12 mile TT was a mnthly test he did to assess LT. I would not expect him (nor should you) to sustain such a pace for 112 miles in an IM. Get real.
Frank, do your sales go up when there’s a thread about PC’s going on Slowtwitch?
no
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Frank, your Web site says “most” people. Now you are saying “average” people. Who are the set of people to whom you are referring?
I’m sorry, if you think anyone who puts out 250W for an hour can double that (in case your math is bad, that’s 500W), you are smoking something that is on a banned list.
In no post of mine have I referred to IM; where’d you get that from? I referred to “Joe”, who you said could only hold ~150W for an hour. Nobody I know who has done any training on the bike can only produce ~150W for an hour, unless they are out on the edges of the population (sick, old, one-legged, etc.). That’s not elitist, that’s the reality of triathletes and roadies. Then you bring up “sedentary”: is that your “most” people?
I never said (and to my knowledge, you never mentioned) anything about “Joe” training for an Ironman. Where’d that come from? Are you now saying that “Joe”, who can hold over 27mph for 20K, has not done any races that those playing at home can verify? That would possibly put him in the top 10 or 20 of any state TT championship in the country. He must have some focused training schedule.
I’m getting ready to call bullshit on “Joe”.
The claim, at least in this thread, is actually 28 mph, not 27 mph. If true, that would be enough to win the TT in many states, not just place in the top 10-20.
I’m using the claim on the PC Web site, which says “over 27mph”. Believe it or not, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, remember that that is for 20K, not 40K. Maybe “Joe” blows up at 20K at that pace; we don’t know what “Joe” can do for 40K.
If: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=11, L=12, M=13, N=14, O=15, P=16, Q=17, R=18, S=19, T=20, U=21, V=22, W=23, X=24, Y=25, Z=26,
Then H A R D W O R K = 8 + 1 + 18 + 4 + 23 + 15 + 18 + 11 = 98% max wattage output,
K N O W L E D G E = 11 + 14 + 15+ 23 + 12 + 5 + 4 + 7 + 5 = 96% max wattage output
A T T I T U D E = 1 + 20 + 20 + 9 + 20 + 21 + 4 +5 = 100% max wattage output
B U L L S H I T = 2 + 21 + 12 + 12 + 19 + 8 + 9 + 20 = 103% max wattage output
And P O W E R C R A N K S = 16 + 15 + 23 + 5 + 18 + 3 + 18 + 1 + 14 + 11 + 21 = 145% max wattage output
Ergo, if I interpret the results of my data correctly, with hardwork, knowledge and attitude I can reach close to 100% of my potential. With bullshit and power cranks, I can far exceed what is possible with hardwork, knowledge and attitude.
Ken writes: "Frank, your Web site says “most” people. Now you are saying “average” people. Who are the set of people to whom you are referring?
I’m sorry, if you think anyone who puts out 250W for an hour can double that (in case your math is bad, that’s 500W), you are smoking something that is on a banned list. "
Ken, the claim is for the typical cyclist or triathlete. In most instances the “typical” anything would be somewhere near the “average” anything and in most instances, where there is a bell curve, if you are near the “average” you would fall in the “most” category.
Now, most people have similar potential. If it is possible for anyone to average 500 watts for an hour (which I believe it is) then it is possible for most to achieve this if they work hard enough and long enough. Most are not willing to do this amount of work so they do not realize this end, but it is possible.
Just got off the phone with another user who has been on the cranks for about a year. At IM Brazil he set a new PR that had stood for 12 years AND had a run split that beat his previous best stand alone marathon time. This is a multiple Hawaii qualifier and no spring chicken so not something he “matured” into and no big change in training other than PC’s. Why don’t you complain and comment about something you know something about?
Anyhow, I apologize to the masses for the resonses to this thread. I should have known better.
Frank
It has only grown to a full-blown 28 mph because that is what he reported after the 3rd year on the cranks. He was “over 27 mph” after 2 years.
The download time and quality of the movie was Ok. I still haven’t made up my mind on PC’s, however the Joe in the video is Joe Bonnes an AG legend from Florida at the IM distance. I am a newbie with < 2years in the sport so I’m surprised the PC detractors posting on this subject didn’t know who he was. Not saying the claims are valid or not but Joe is definitely no slouch on the bike so his opinions carry some weight in my mind based on race results.
Actually, there were two Joes in the video. The Joe with the remarkable increase we are talking about is Joe Skufka. Joe Bonness has not seen those increases, although he recently set an IM distance PR.
Oh, and thanks for the movie feedback.
What are his new times, old times, name?