Thank you for sharing your take.
Tell me you weren’t in Nice without telling me you didn’t travel to Nice. See also the false statistical comparison in the first paragraph.
“Proper qualification”! . . . . .
“should not be treated as a ribbon participation event” This, for amateurs is EXACTLY what any ‘world champs’ is and is precisely the business model on which IRONMAN relies (see also “we bragged about [the fact we’ve participated in Kona] for the rest of our lives.”)
I disagree with several of the OP’s other assertions and deductions but others have addressed those.
I too would like one world champs in one venue, but the women’s race must be separate and unlike the 70.3s which can run on consecutive days, the two races need to be two or more days apart (I actually think consecutive Saturdays could work).
HI Mark, rolling back literally 30 years, ITU/World Triathlon had a lot of opportunity to develop long distance racing but they did not because the money for the federations was in an Olympic stream, It left a massive opening for private industry to capitalize on the interest in going “long” that humans have. It’s like no one cares about 10km running at our offices, they are impressed when we say we did do a marathon. And that pulls people to that distance because it “feels” like more of an accomplishment. Ironman ended up filling that need and servicing it.
So we are where we are!!!
Part of me does not begrudge Ironman for chasing $$$ because it is better if these things run professionally many people have a chance to make a decent living running events, there is a good standard of execution and safety, and some level of consistency venue to venue. Generally I get these at Ironman events. I just checked into the transition at 70.3 Marocco, and it is the same procedure, sequence, and process as a 70.3 Worlds or Kona. I’ve never raced in this country, and the reason why my wife is OK with me racing somewhere, where I have no clue about the local tri federation or culture or business or political environment, is Ironman endorsed things for me by putting an event in Tangiers. It may still end up being a shit show, it may be just like at Ironman races in Canada with just a different language and different location of race route. I’ll report back, but if it was a long distance tri run by the Maroccan Federation endorsed by World Triathlon, I just would not feel comfortable entering because standards are all over the place. Rather, I might come to this place to just be a tourist, not do a tri!!!
It’$ cute to say that Ironman should have a unified champion$hip. Kona i$ limited to ~2,500 athlete$. That mean$ only 1,200 men and women at $1,500 each. But if you $plit them you can $end 2,700 to Nice and 2,700 to Kona for $1,500 each. Check my math but that $ounds like double the revenue.
It’s a total my$tery.
(also Ironman has zero competitors. Gimme a break with T100. They’re great but no one is telling their coworkers about going to T100 Vegas.)
@mathematics Are you going to add up everything with your math here?. Or do we really need to bring back pink?
Why do you think Moritz Events Co has love of the sport as their number one priority (news flash they don’t, they also will never own Ironman because Michael isn’t going to spend that sort of coin). Also, the PTO is a private company, owned by Venture and PE, do you really think they wouldn’t take your money from you just like Ironman does? Heck they are doing this now with the select amateur races they have promoted. They are not a white knight.
Ironman built long course as a sport, Ironman should continue to reap the benefits.
Also, point to me on the doll where Ironman wronged you, (read the Terms of Service for the race you signed up for).
Ironman going bankrupt would be HORRIBLE for this sport. But hey we have weird opinions like yours on this board to read.
There’s too many unknowns. 2,500*$1,500 is $3,750,000 so that’s a data point at least. Minus the expenses (Active.com taking something like 10% right of the top, onsite expenses, marketing, red tape, etc).
But WTC releases financial statements so maybe we’ll actually get to compare pre/post split. A lot of confounding factors tho.
Asking ChatGPT, gives below answer! Sounds fairly close to me:
Ironman Race Profit and Loss Statement
Revenue
- Entry Fees:
• The primary source of revenue. This includes participant registration fees.
• Example: 2,500 participants x $700 average fee = $1,750,000.
- Sponsorships:
• Revenue from corporate sponsors for brand exposure, event naming rights, product placement, and partnerships.
• Example: $500,000 from title sponsors, $250,000 from secondary sponsors.
- Merchandise Sales:
• Revenue from selling branded merchandise such as apparel, gear, and accessories at the race expo and online.
• Example: $100,000.
- Food and Beverage Sales:
• Revenue from concession sales or vendor fees at the event.
• Example: $50,000.
- Expo Booth Rentals:
• Revenue from vendors renting space at the event expo to showcase products or services.
• Example: $75,000.
- Broadcasting and Media Rights:
• Revenue from licensing rights for broadcasting the race or creating documentary content.
• Example: $200,000.
- Other Revenue:
• Miscellaneous income, such as parking fees, athlete training camps, or VIP experiences.
• Example: $50,000.
Total Revenue: $2,925,000
Expenses
- Race Organization Costs:
• Includes race planning, permits, and logistical expenses like police, emergency medical staff, security, and timing services.
• Example: $400,000.
- Venue and Facility Costs:
• Rental fees for event spaces, transition zones, finish line setup, and other infrastructure.
• Example: $300,000.
- Staff and Volunteer Costs:
• Payments to event staff, as well as expenses for volunteer support, including food, gear, and transport.
• Example: $150,000.
- Marketing and Advertising:
• Costs for digital, social media, and traditional marketing to attract participants and sponsors.
• Example: $200,000.
- Prizes and Awards:
• Prize money for professional athletes and costs of medals and trophies for age-group competitors.
• Example: $150,000.
- Merchandise Costs:
• Cost of goods sold for branded apparel and other items.
• Example: $50,000.
- Sponsorship Fulfillment:
• Expenses related to meeting sponsor obligations such as signage, branded race materials, and VIP experiences.
• Example: $75,000.
- Insurance and Legal:
• Liability insurance, event insurance, and legal fees.
• Example: $100,000.
- Food and Beverage Costs:
• Cost of providing on-course nutrition, water stations, and athlete meals.
• Example: $75,000.
- Broadcast and Media Production:
• Costs for filming, editing, and distributing race footage.
• Example: $100,000.
- Miscellaneous Costs:
• Other costs, such as athlete transportation, race day logistics, and contingencies.
• Example: $50,000.
Total Expenses: $1,650,000
Net Profit:
Total Revenue – Total Expenses
$2,925,000 – $1,650,000 = $1,275,000
This AI is scary, but also very useful. Even just as a order-of-magnitude calculation I’d take the stated 43% profit margin to be correct within +/-10%. So WTC/IM looking to gain $1.2mil-$1.9mil per year by splitting the championship.
For you @E_DUB
(pink) It’s still a mystery why they’d do this. (/pink)
The AI estimate has 150k in labor costs.
That doesn’t come close to passing the smell test for their full time staff. You’ve got various levels of executive, accounting, management, and other employees. Then there’s the contracted temp workers for setup, tradeshow, etc.
Then we’ve got equipment and all other kinds of investments that are factored in.
I’d say best case IM net income after everything is 10%.
I’m entirely out of my comfort zone here, but don’t financial statements usually state in terms of $1,000 or $1,000,000? So $150k is actually $150,000,000? I have no idea how AI would do this, I’m hoping someone smarter can jump in.
The only thing I can actually add is that a 10% profit margin is a tough business. The 10y rate is 4%, it’s a lot of risk for not much reward. Then again there are financial tricks to raise/lower your margin based on the goals of the company, so we never truly know.
So at the latest city council meeting of Frankfort, Michigan, they wanted to extend the race contract for two years. But they wanted a 25% cut of the profits of the race. Ironman generates a decent amount of revenue, but the profit margin is pretty slim I think, maybe 20% over a year. That includes sponsorship.
Have a look here. Scroll down to the table by average net profit margin by industry.
I think you’re confusing net with gross.
@Lurker4 - the Labor cost would (for this case) cover manpower only for the event, i.e. any activities related directly to the event, not running the brand (WTC/Ironman) itself over the year. Add to that a bit of overall event admin.
I would say 150K (@mathematics: 150.000) is fairly OK. That covers a bit more that 1 FTE, say 400 man-days. Or you could have 20 people working full-time for 4 weeks (20 work days) leading into the event.
What you could say is “funny” is how an Ironman race would be a ruin financially, if it was not for the many, many volunteers.
Is it fair to run a for-profit corporation, and then ask people spend their well-deserved free-time to make your event-EBITDA positive?
I can’t believe two days format is possible for long distance. Too much logistic hustle. Two consecutive days not doable at all. Two days with a break - big burden for any local community. So either or.