but eventually religious fundamentalism took hold, and the results are…well, they are what they are.
Presumably in recent history, the united states was the center of science and learning, but perhaps we are headed down the same path:
http://www.physorg.com/news158320278.html
How can we combat this? How do you combat people who will not listen to rational argument? What answers are there short of violence?
dammit, now i need to go find my tinfoil hat!
“How can we combat this?”
You can’t. Our enemy has no reality based beliefs and can change their spiritual beliefs in a heart beat. When everyone realized the Bible is bullshit it went from the word of God and the bedrock of belief to the nice book of stories.
Give up.
but eventually religious fundamentalism took hold, and the results are…well, they are what they are.
Presumably in recent history, the united states was the center of science and learning, but perhaps we are headed down the same path:
http://www.physorg.com/news158320278.html
How can we combat this? How do you combat people who will not listen to rational argument? What answers are there short of violence?
The USA’s unique position is due more to the continental drift theory then anything else. Had we been part of Europe or Asia would would have been untouched by war? Or decimated by it?
Science and Learning are no longer limited to a nation. The Internet has breached all boarders and it’s a great equalizer to many degrees but those countries with the most $$$ for research, and/or the best living conditions, will attract the best minds. Einstein left Germany because of what was happening there. Had he stayed and applied himself to the development of the A-bomb who knows what could have happened?
dammit, now i need to go find my tinfoil hat!
Are you suggesting I am a tin hatter?
Sadly in Texas it isn’t paranoia right now, because they are really out to get us!
not at all. but after reading that link,i just feel the need to put on the tinfoil hat so I can understand the moon bots rationale!
not at all. but after reading that link,i just feel the need to put on the tinfoil hat so I can understand the moon bots rationale!
oh yeah,that might work!
**What answers are there short of violence? **
I choose beer 
More seriously it is my belief either the country will wake up…or they won’t. If they don’t historically some other country comes along that is more “Enlightened”. If things deteriorate so badly here, you move.
~Matt
hopefully before that isn’t an option!
If things deteriorate so badly here, you move.
~Matt
not at all. but after reading that link,i just feel the need to put on the tinfoil hat so I can understand the moon bots rationale!
You can go and walk with the moonbots if you like. I’m gonna stick with the fembots. At least that way I’ll die smiling.
Once upon a time, the middle east was the center of learning and science. This was due in large part to the contributions of religious scholars. Before Islam took hold in the 7th century, the middle east was not a center for learning and science. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Some of the greatest scientific minds throughout history have been deeply religious.
I am not, in this thread, suggesting that religion and science are mutually exclusive.
I was saying that religious fundamentalists are screwing up science education in America, which is fact.
Please, as one of them, can you help make this stop, or tell me how I can help make it stop?
Once upon a time, the middle east was the center of learning and science. This was due in large part to the contributions of religious scholars. Before Islam took hold in the 7th century, the middle east was not a center for learning and science. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Some of the greatest scientific minds throughout history have been deeply religious.
I think the main problem is fear (call it rational or irrational) on the part of most religious fundamentalists. They feel that the push to teach their children science is just a cover for converting them to atheism.
As to how you can fight it? Simple, you can not. From other posts (and your sig line) I am guessing you are an atheist and therefore represent what they fear. You telling them you only want to teach their children valid, scientific fact is like a guy with a box of condoms telling a girl he just wants to come over for coffee. It might be true but they aren’t going to believe you.
It is up to those of us who are religious and scientists to try to stop it. Sadly, I don’t think we are doing a very good job. In my defense, it is really hard. Have you ever spoken with a religious fundamentalist? Not an easy conversation.
jack, i will pray for you… you’ve lost your spiritual compass and your friend P-Tex is here to help!
hopefully before that isn’t an option!
Yeah, that’s always an issue.
~Matt
yeah, one of my good friends is a fundamentalist, brilliant guy. just out of his mind sometimes.
there must be ways to sway populations away from or towards this line of thinking though, as the trends do wax and wane. What are the factors that push populations one way or another?
I think the main problem is fear (call it rational or irrational) on the part of most religious fundamentalists. They feel that the push to teach their children science is just a cover for converting them to atheism.
As to how you can fight it? Simple, you can not. From other posts (and your sig line) I am guessing you are an atheist and therefore represent what they fear. You telling them you only want to teach their children valid, scientific fact is like a guy with a box of condoms telling a girl he just wants to come over for coffee. It might be true but they aren’t going to believe you.
It is up to those of us who are religious and scientists to try to stop it. Sadly, I don’t think we are doing a very good job. In my defense, it is really hard. Have you ever spoken with a religious fundamentalist? Not an easy conversation.
P-Tex,
I didn’t lose it, Jesus didn’t ever give me one!
jack, i will pray for you… you’ve lost your spiritual compass and your friend P-Tex is here to help!
I’m not sure how I see where Fundamentalist Christians in the USA have any say in what is taught in public schools. That is not set by the “public.” Sure, there is an occasional uprising in a small community in regards to evolution or sex ed. But for the most part, how can you say there is some oppressive movement to silence learning and science. We have a Christian household and I really didn’t care what they were teaching my kids because when they came home we went over it and discussed both sides.
Because there is such a movement, in small communities known as Kansas, and Texas, and others.
They actively get people in their camp on school boards and push organized agendas into the public school programs, ones that are thinly disguised as “alternative scientific theories” or “teach the controversy”. The phrase intelligent design was invented because creationism had soundly been ruled religion by the courts over and over. These are dedicated people, many of them mean well (some do not) they just have it wrong.
The leading organizational body behind this movement in the united states is the Discovery Institute and their ‘Center for Science and Culture’.
I implore you to help ensure that your own state is not infiltrated by this madness.
I’m not sure how I see where Fundamentalist Christians in the USA have any say in what is taught in public schools. That is not set by the “public.” Sure, there is an occasional uprising in a small community in regards to evolution or sex ed. But for the most part, how can you say there is some oppressive movement to silence learning and science. We have a Christian household and I really didn’t care what they were teaching my kids because when they came home we went over it and discussed both sides.
How pervasive is this? I have never even heard of it. For the record, I don’t agree with it. I don’t want any religious agenda being pushed in school. There is a time and a place for that (home, church). Besides, the way things are going, it might be the Muslims trying to push to get their stuff into the schools. So… a big no to all of them.