I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
I am one of the people that believe you should train/test in the same manner you will race. So FTP testing and hard intervals are always on the extensions. During easier efforts, I may sit up every 5 minutes or so, but the majority of time is still in the extensions.
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
I am one of the people that believe you should train/test in the same manner you will race. So FTP testing and hard intervals are always on the extensions. During easier efforts, I may sit up every 5 minutes or so, but the majority of time is still in the extensions.
+1
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
I am one of the people that believe you should train/test in the same manner you will race. So FTP testing and hard intervals are always on the extensions. During easier efforts, I may sit up every 5 minutes or so, but the majority of time is still in the extensions.
+1
+2
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
Last season I had an FTP test where I sat up for the second 10 minutes of the test interval b/c I just couldn’t hang on in aero any longer at that power output. That was my highest 20 minute output the whole season but the calculated FTP from that interval was in no way realistic. Train like you intend to race. I find that my FTP tests where I test fully in aero result in realistic approximations of my FTP.
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
I am one of the people that believe you should train/test in the same manner you will race. So FTP testing and hard intervals are always on the extensions. During easier efforts, I may sit up every 5 minutes or so, but the majority of time is still in the extensions.
+1
This exactly. +2
Your FTPs are different, with some people very different, for for trainer/in bars and on the road standing up and sitting up whenever you want. HOWEVER, you can read about many pros who ride 80-90% on a road bike. So like the others said, test how you are going to train so the #s are useful.
My practice so far has been to test sitting up, then do as much training as possible in the extensions, only sitting up when I have to. Not sure if it makes enough of a difference to think about changing.
Keep doing that.
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
Last season I had an FTP test where I sat up for the second 10 minutes of the test interval b/c I just couldn’t hang on in aero any longer at that power output. That was my highest 20 minute output the whole season but the calculated FTP from that interval was in no way realistic. Train like you intend to race. I find that my FTP tests where I test fully in aero result in realistic approximations of my FTP.
I know I’m not a fitter or coach or anything similar, but surely the position that you would want on a tribike is one where you can be in the aero position for extended periods of time whilst working at a high level of output?
and off the back of that, should we have a different ftp value for different positions of bikes.
eg, I have a higher measurable 20 min ftp on the drops on my roadie than on the bars of my tri bike, but when using the tri bike, I use the tri bike ftp as my measure… as the roadie one would not be relevant.
so back to your situation above, a FTP of say 270 watts sitting upright, but that may be 110% of your aero bar FTP… which do you select as the measure upon which to base your training?
A couple of points:
some might chose to adopt a position that makes slightly less power, because it is still faster
if your power is so different on your TT bike that you start worrying about having a different FTP settings, you probably went too far, and should correct the problem.
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
Last season I had an FTP test where I sat up for the second 10 minutes of the test interval b/c I just couldn’t hang on in aero any longer at that power output. That was my highest 20 minute output the whole season but the calculated FTP from that interval was in no way realistic. Train like you intend to race. I find that my FTP tests where I test fully in aero result in realistic approximations of my FTP.
I know I’m not a fitter or coach or anything similar, but surely the position that you would want on a tribike is one where you can be in the aero position for extended periods of time whilst working at a high level of output?
and off the back of that, should we have a different ftp value for different positions of bikes.
eg, I have a higher measurable 20 min ftp on the drops on my roadie than on the bars of my tri bike, but when using the tri bike, I use the tri bike ftp as my measure… as the roadie one would not be relevant.
so back to your situation above, a FTP of say 270 watts sitting upright, but that may be 110% of your aero bar FTP… which do you select as the measure upon which to base your training?
Should you be concerned about your tri vs road fit during the out season?
Sit up. Numbers is what win the race, not RPE. Indoor training has a higher mental cost (thus RPE) than outdoor riding and the purpose is to train the body to metabolize energy as fast as possible, and that is done sitting up. Lying in aero you introduce a mechanical deficit, making your actual, physical, FTP lower than necessary.
For every hard effort you should be on an road bike or sit up. For every easy effort, go aero. You will get the best of both worlds: high outputs on the intervals and adjusting to aero position on the easy days.
Sit up. Numbers is what win the race, not RPE. Indoor training has a higher mental cost (thus RPE) than outdoor riding and the purpose is to train the body to metabolize energy as fast as possible, and that is done sitting up. Lying in aero you introduce a mechanical deficit, making your actual, physical, FTP lower than necessary.
For every hard effort you should be on an road bike or sit up. For every easy effort, go aero. You will get the best of both worlds: high outputs on the intervals and adjusting to aero position on the easy days.
Agreed. Use the position you produce the most power and get the most work done.
To a degree it’s a moot point anyway. I appreciate there are always exceptions but given a decent amount of people seem to the able to produce slightly less power indoors than out anyway there’s no guarantee that what you do indoors will apply outdoors as well whether that’s power or position. Riding indoors and outdoors is just different and you can end up comparing apples and oranges.
As long as know you can stay aero for the duration of your chosen race distance outdoors I don’t think it matters too much how you train on the trainer as they are different animals. Just keep improving and that will translate to your racing.
Sit up. Numbers is what win the race, not RPE. Indoor training has a higher mental cost (thus RPE) than outdoor riding and the purpose is to train the body to metabolize energy as fast as possible, and that is done sitting up. Lying in aero you introduce a mechanical deficit, making your actual, physical, FTP lower than necessary.
For every hard effort you should be on an road bike or sit up. For every easy effort, go aero. You will get the best of both worlds: high outputs on the intervals and adjusting to aero position on the easy days.
Don’t agree. If you need to put the power out in the aero position in a race, then that is what you must train to do. How much you do it (c/w sat up) is up to you. I personally sit up sometimes (and have noticed a distinct drop in HR for the same power until it starts climbing again) if I feel I might not get the session done in it’s entirety otherwise. Just write down what you did in your training log and only compare like with like.
Or you need more time to adapt to the position.
A couple of points:
some might chose to adopt a position that makes slightly less power, because it is still faster
if your power is so different on your TT bike that you start worrying about having a different FTP settings, you probably went too far, and should correct the problem.
I know there are conflicting opinions as to whether it matters whether you are in the extensions or on the base bar while on the bike trainer.
Would it matter during FTP testing and hard intervals? Would it be better to test lower for FTP/miss an interval or be on the base bar and hit the numbers?
Last season I had an FTP test where I sat up for the second 10 minutes of the test interval b/c I just couldn’t hang on in aero any longer at that power output. That was my highest 20 minute output the whole season but the calculated FTP from that interval was in no way realistic. Train like you intend to race. I find that my FTP tests where I test fully in aero result in realistic approximations of my FTP.
I know I’m not a fitter or coach or anything similar, but surely the position that you would want on a tribike is one where you can be in the aero position for extended periods of time whilst working at a high level of output?
and off the back of that, should we have a different ftp value for different positions of bikes.
eg, I have a higher measurable 20 min ftp on the drops on my roadie than on the bars of my tri bike, but when using the tri bike, I use the tri bike ftp as my measure… as the roadie one would not be relevant.
so back to your situation above, a FTP of say 270 watts sitting upright, but that may be 110% of your aero bar FTP… which do you select as the measure upon which to base your training?
Sit up. Numbers is what win the race, not RPE. Indoor training has a higher mental cost (thus RPE) than outdoor riding and the purpose is to train the body to metabolize energy as fast as possible, and that is done sitting up. Lying in aero you introduce a mechanical deficit, making your actual, physical, FTP lower than necessary.
For every hard effort you should be on an road bike or sit up. For every easy effort, go aero. You will get the best of both worlds: high outputs on the intervals and adjusting to aero position on the easy days.
Don’t agree. If you need to put the power out in the aero position in a race, then that is what you must train to do. How much you do it (c/w sat up) is up to you. I personally sit up sometimes (and have noticed a distinct drop in HR for the same power until it starts climbing again) if I feel I might not get the session done in it’s entirety otherwise. Just write down what you did in your training log and only compare like with like.
The reason behind doing interval sitting up is the same reason why you should not only practice race pace intervals throughout the year. Periodization. You build from general (ability to put out huge numbers) to specifitiy (best possible race performance, ie w/cda & pacing.). Dont do all at once. First, get the numbers high. Get very fit. Then adopt it to race specificity. Still using the aero bars for easy training during general prep makes the shift into specific easier and faster.
This. You want your FTP work to be balls out hard/ maximal effort pushing the highest numbers you can manage. For all other rides go aero
This. You want your FTP work to be balls out hard/ maximal effort pushing the highest numbers you can manage. For all other rides go aero
This makes no sense to me. I am still going as hard as I can when in aero and that is the position I race in. What is the benefit of gaining power in a position I do not race in, bearing in mind that I do also increase my power in aero. Are you saying you can increase power gains quicker sitting up? I also understand specificity in terms of efforts, but do fail to see why you should do heavy intervals sitting up when as soon as you go into aero the majority of people are unable to put out Max power.
I am genuinely curious if this is opinion or fact?
Adding more anecdotes… Last year from October to February I did all of my hard intervals and testing in the upright position, indoors…following the logic that the more power the better. I did strive to do much of my easy rides down in the aero position. Mid February I went to Tucson for a 2.5 month training camp and at this time I made it a point to begin doing all of my hard efforts down in the TT position. I was taken a back by how much my power output had dropped…around 30 watts. In reality it was probably even more than this because as has been mentioned, it tends to be easier to push bigger numbers outside due to more external stimulation. It took me almost the entire training camp to get back to pushing numbers I had been pushing indoors, upright. This “offseason” I have made it a point to do all of my hard intervals in the position I will race in…and I do a lot more of my easy riding upright.