Assuminig you have something like the following "training set up’;
Swim: QR Fullsuit (low end of the wetsuit spectrum)
Bike: Your stock bike comes with Rolf Vector Comps or Shimano 105 16 spoke radially laced “training wheels”
Run: Your tried and true Saucony Jazz
Now you want to buy some “free time”. Options are:
Upgrade to DeSoto T1 = 60 seconds
Upgrade to Zipp 404 = 90 - 120 seconds
Upgrade to Saucony Grid Statics = 60 seconds
Dollar for Dollar, I’d go for the Grid Statics first ($60), then the T1 then the Zipp 404’s, but I am always amazed by the amount of coin people will spend on fast race wheels, yet wear crappy and poor fitting wetsuits and run in clunker injury inducing “stability” running shoes.
Clearly, the Zipp 404’s look the coolest, but they buy you the least amount of time per dollar.
I’m always amazed at the amount of coin some guys spend to save a pound on their bike, when they’re pushing or pulling a 10lbs gut (or worse) along with them, everywhere they go.
If you’re not already skinny, the easiest way to get faster is to LOSE weight!
When looking at time spent during each event, the bike is the longest event (obviously in mileage as well, but that is not what I’m getting at). If you are wanting to make the biggest impact, you should cut down your time on the biggest event. If you are able to shave 5 seconds per mile with each of your possible upgrades, then obviously the bike wheels would do the most amound of improvement.
I have lost 5 pounds off of my bike+rider combo… that hasn’t stopped me from wanting a new lighter bike though… Damn lust is a powerful thing huh… Intelectually I know that a new bike aint going to do shit for how fast I am on the hills but the heart is a strong thing
That’s a fairly generous time bonus you gave the Grid Statics. I wouldn’t put the savings between those and the Jazz anywhere near 60 seconds. In fact, I’m not sure I’d call them an upgrade. . .more like a lateral move. If you want any tangible savings you 'd have to swap over to a full-on minimal racing flat. Asics Gel-Magics might give you a bit of a bonus.
One variable you don’t put into your cost vs speed equation is longevity. Running shoes might last one season if used for racing only. The 404s or wetsuit will last for years, effectively ammortizing the cost.
Excellent point on replacement of racing flats. Either way, even if they gain you 30 seconds, dollar per second, they the best upgrade, and unless you race more than 8 times a year, you should get two seasons out of a pair of flats.
The point I was getting at, is that in our consumer, materialistic obsessed, SUV fuelled, gas guzzling imported oil dependent society, we put more of an emphasis on expensive exotic looking hardware that make us “feel good” rather than what is actually functional. If everyone honestly cared about function, the racing flats would always come first, just as a Mazda3 wagon or Ford Focus wagon would come before a Ford Explorer (which provides marginally more functionality at double the price). For the record, I do own a SUV, have Zipp 440’s (8 year old), Grid statics, but don’t have a DeSoto T1 or high end Ironman, Aquaman or Orca Wetsuit.
I’ve heard John Cobb answer that question many times and he would say the wheels. Then again, he says if you can’t push 21mph for a 40K then race wheels may not matter.
Dedication to good training habits makes your faster…
I’ve seen a number of studies confirming your stats dealing with aero wheels, but I’ve never seen anything scientific about wetsuits and it seems to me I read that flats will save only about 12 seconds over a 10 kms.
I know from personal experience the wetsuits help a lot, but are there any actual studies on this?
Are you kidding ? Only 12 seconds over 10K ? Then why on earth do they sell flats ? Running track in flats vs training shoes saves me over 4 seconds per 400m at the same heartrate. In theory, that would be 100 seconds per 10K or 1:40. This is only theory, but the reality is that the speed on the track per 400 is substantially quicker than tri 10K speed off the bike, so the rotating swing weight of a lighter shoe has even more impact at the short 400 m distance. I still stand by the 60 seconds/10K for flats. Even if it is placebo affect and I go faster in flats cause I feel I should, then I’ll take it. I still believe $/sec, flats are the best deal, even with a 2 year turnover cycle.
I race up to half Ironman in flats and I love the feeling like the feet weigh nothing !
OK - I’m a big legged ex-bike racer who’s trying run a bit quicker so I’ll bite on this:
Dollar for Dollar, I’d go for the Grid Statics first ($60), then the T1 then the Zipp 404’s, but I am always amazed by the amount of coin people will spend on fast race wheels, yet wear crappy and poor fitting wetsuits and run in clunker injury inducing “stability” running shoes. <<
I run and race in “clunker injury inducing “stability” running shoes” but at 5’10" and 175 I figured that this was safest. Can anyone provide insight into the reasoning behind lighter shoes for the fat boys?
OK - I’m a big legged ex-bike racer who’s trying run a bit quicker so I’ll bite on this:
Dollar for Dollar, I’d go for the Grid Statics first ($60), then the T1 then the Zipp 404’s, but I am always amazed by the amount of coin people will spend on fast race wheels, yet wear crappy and poor fitting wetsuits and run in clunker injury inducing “stability” running shoes. <<
I run and race in “clunker injury inducing “stability” running shoes” but at 5’10" and 175 I figured that this was safest. Can anyone provide insight into the reasoning behind lighter shoes for the fat boys?
Thanks
I don’t know what happened to my earlier reply on this topic, but there is an entire thread on the go talking about modern running shoes causing injuries that appeared in the last two day. Please do a search and read it. Lots of excellent points.
"Are you kidding ? Only 12 seconds over 10K ? Then why on earth do they sell flats ? "
I’ll have to research the source but I’m sure that’s what I read. I’d say the sell flats because of marketing, just like everything else, but maybe I’m just cynical.
I have a set of racing flats for shorter races - may try a half IM in them now…but I’ll have to break them in as I got horrible blisters in a sprint (no socks) but I’d be super surprised if they saved a minute over a 10K - but maybe…sure do feel cool (very light feet) when I wear them so with that mental plus - maybe…relatively cheap (less than most races).
Racing wheels - expensive but its all a $/time - is it worth it? I think maybe 90-120 seconds over 40K. 1000$ seems like a lot for wheels…
Wetsuit. 60 seconds for a T1 over another full wetsuit? I doubt it but again never tested. I know I’m almost 10% faster in my sleeveless 14 year old beat up wetsuit than a speedo or trisuit. I’ve tested this - my time and stroke count both drop about 10%. I’d be surprised if the difference in full suits is much…I’ll be checking how a T1 compares to my old suit once I can get one (assuming it fits me).
The old hiking saying is “a pound on the feet is worth four on the back”. I’m 6’7" 195lbs and run in fairly light shoes, Nike air zoom elite’s. I test ran these and a pair of adidas cubato’s (flats). I actually liked the flats better but decided I would kill them in a couple of weeks. My experience at running shoe stores has been the bigger you are, the heavier shoe they want to sell you. My reasoning has always been, buy the lightest stuff you can get away with until experience says do otherwise.
Somebody, maybe Tom D, did a 2.4 mile open water with no suit, john suit, and full suit and the time savings at each level were significant. I know he reposted it to another thread just a day or two ago because I remember seeing it.
I found that I consistently averaged about 19.5mph on my standard course (including stoplights, slowdowns for intersections, etc) with my training wheels (mavic Open Pro 32 hole) and just over 21mph with a Renn rear and Velocity Spartacus 16 spoke front. That equates to 5.5 minutes over a 40k. I’ve done this enough times now to know the numbers are pretty reasonably accurate…of course it depends on what wheels you are initially starting with. With low spoke count Vectors or something the gain may be substantially less, but I’d be surprised if 1.5-2 minutes is all you would get from the change.
Unless you’re swimming the 1.5k in < 18:00, get a bunch of personal coaching from a qualified swimming coach instead of dropping $400 on a new wetsuit.
Unless you’re doing the 40k in 1:00:00, take a week off work and put in a ton of miles on the bike instead of dropping $1,350 on Zipps.
Go ahead and buy the shoes. They’re $60. Treat yourself: )