I am stupid to that that if a person who is not a citizen goes to basic training and puts on a uniform it should be then that they are a citizen, not waiting until the horrible case of their death? I can not believe that Bush has not put into law a new system for these brave folks.
“I am stupid to that that if a person who is not a citizen goes to basic training and puts on a uniform it should be then that they are a citizen, not waiting until the horrible case of their death?”
You walk a very fine line with this issue. On the one hand, I agree that those who serve should have an easier road to citizenship. On the other hand, I don’t like the idea of automatic citizenship, whether it’s wartime or not. For one thing, there’s no declared war, so what’s the dividing line between “wartime” and “peacetime?” Second, I don’t like the idea of immigrants signing up for the free citizenship, which is exactly what would result from this. Rather than having volunteers who want to serve and are rewarded with citizenship, what you would have is people who sign up to get legal status, and are not very committed to the service aspect. Keep in mind that the vast majority of people who go to basic and then put on a uniform never ever come close to seeing combat.
At first I agreed with Chip, but then you brought up some interesting points.
IMO, I’d like to see citizenship granted after some minimum service completed (like 2-5 years), regardless of the duties. In that time period, as a soldier, they’d be treated as citizens but would lose that if they were discharged. If, sadly, they die before their time is up, then yes, grant them citizenship and whatever benefits might come with it (even if only nominal).
Barry, the one time you and I see ALMOST eye to eye…It does not take a year in combat to get killed. Maybe they should offer as part of Basic Training the test to become a citizen, or the second you enter a combat zone…it is yours. In any case, be it in combat or not…these people even though not born here, are infact part of our military and protecting the country we are blessed to be in. I dont care if a person is killed in combat or killed in a tragic C130 crash state side, or even disabled for that matter. If someone is willing to enlist and protect our country - the least we can do is make them a citizen.
I agree completely. Once you get through basic training for all five branches, you should become a provisional citizen. In the cases of other than honorable, bad conduct, and dishonorable discharges, citizenship is revoked.
My thoughts:
They’re serving my country. It should be their’s, too. This isn’t a free pass to citizenship or amnesty. Keep in mind that the military is an opportunity for everyone. The opportunity for a paycheck, money for college, learned skills, paying a debt to America, giving back, protecting freedoms, and making a difference in the world, to name a few.
I would have no problems if one of my PFC’s enlisted to become a citizen. Obviously, America is a great opportunity for this Marine. What more can you ask for but love of a nation? The military will do the rest to ensure a well trained and competent Marine/Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Coastie.
Just to play Devils advocate…why not try something like not letting non-citizens serve in our military? There is a larger element of risk on National Security issues with allowing a non-citizen to serve in the military. Imagine a foreign national joining the U.S. Navy, being stationed on a ship and being placed in a position where he/she will have access to classified documents. What if their plan is to get access to those documents and image them for their home country?
Although not a foreigner, take a hard look at the John Walker case and see how easy it was to get someone into position to steal classified material. Now put in place of “John Walker” the name “Abdu Salfetti” or any other name that may pop into mind and you have a serious issue.
I don’t know if your situation is possible, might be do to current military need, but said undocumented worker should be come a welcomed US citizen after his tour. If he dies in service then wife/husband and children should be made a citizen. We did for the Irish during the Civil War. They got off a boat where handed a Springfield and if they where lucky enough to survive that most tactically stupid of wars they where citizens.
How do you come to the conclusion that there are many undocumented immigrants serving in our military?
I read newspapers, watch the news, stuff like that.
Margaret Stock, an associate professor of law at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, says she’s periodically consulted by attorneys representing illegal service members. “I do think there are probably a significant number of people in the military who had some issue with their immigration status at some point,” she said.
In a December 2003 article in Bender’s Immigration Bulletin, Stock wrote that the federal statute limiting enlistment to citizens and green card holders specifically states that this rule applies “in time of peace.” She cited section 329 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, which holds that “n alien or a noncitizen national of the United States” who “has served honorably” in the armed forces during a “period which the President by Executive order shall designate as a period in which Armed Forces of the United States are or were engaged in military operations involving armed conflict . . . may be naturalized . . . whether or not he has been lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence…”
what is most amazing about your OP is that this is your first Iraq War complaint - - - my first complaint was calling it The Iraq War - - - It should have been called Bush’s War
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Obviously, you’ve never heard of THE FRENCH FOREIGN LEGION.
Actually, pretty clever, if you ask me. Get a bunch of foreign saps to sign up to serve military duty overseas in exchange for citizenship. We could outsource our military, just like we have manufacturing and technology.
After three years of service, a legionnaire can ask for the French nationality and may also be entitled to a French resident permit if he has obtained a certificate of satisfactory military service. The resident permit is valid for ten years and is renewable. After only 15 years of service, a legionnaire qualifies for a pension.
“Margaret Stock, an associate professor of law at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, says she’s periodically consulted by attorneys representing illegal service members. “I do think there are probably a significant number of people in the military who had some issue with their immigration status at some point,” she said.”
Anecdotal evidence, at best.
*"…the federal statute limiting enlistment to citizens and green card holders specifically states that this rule applies “in time of peace.” *
**
Wrong. Title 10 is “the law” governing all things military in the U.S., not Section 329 of the Immigration and Naturalization Act. And, Title 10 doesn’t only apply in time of peace. Not disputing some slipping through by presenting false documentation, but here is what the law (Title 10 U.S.C.) says:
*§ 504. Persons not qualified (a) **Insanity, Desertion, Felons, Etc.— **No person who is insane, intoxicated, or a deserter from an armed force, or who has been convicted of a felony, may be enlisted in any armed force. However, the Secretary concerned may authorize exceptions, in meritorious cases, for the enlistment of deserters and persons convicted of felonies. (b) **Citizenship or Residency.— *(1) A person may be enlisted in any armed force only if the person is one of the following: (A) A national of the United States, as defined in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22)). (B) An alien who is lawfully admitted for permanent residence, as defined in section 101(a)(20) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20)). (C) A person described in section 341 of one of the following compacts: (i) The Compact of Free Association between the Federated States of Micronesia and the United States (section 201(a) of Public Law 108–188 (117 Stat. 2784; 48 U.S.C. 1921 note )). (ii) The Compact of Free Association between the Republic of the Marshall Islands and the United States (section 201(b) of Public Law 108–188 (117 Stat. 2823; 48 U.S.C. 1921 note )). (iii) The Compact of Free Association between Palau and the United States (section 201 of Public Law 99–658 (100 Stat. 3678; 48 U.S.C. 1931 note )).
So–an undocumented (illegal) alien, if enlisted, would constitute a fraudulent enlistment. If identified, they would be discharged as such, with some type of “other than honorable discharge” and would not be eligible for the accelerated citizenship process that honorably serving alien veterans earn.
