Letting your ‘concentration lapse’ and gaining an advantage IS cheating, no matter which way you slice it.
I think cheating, by definition, implies an intent to gain an unfair advantage. Riders may draft for numerous reasons – a lapse in concentration, ignorance of the rules, physical inability to pass within the required time limit, an overly congested course, error in judging distance between bikes, getting caught up in the moment (or in a pack) – all of which, while infractions that may merit a penalty, are not cheating.
{quote} “I think we represented spots 6-20 ish. this group was drafting, sadly. At times the group slowed down because no one wanted to go to the front and work. It was straight uproad cycling racing. I was thankful for the break and used it to pull myself together for a few miles.” {/quote}
Take the above quote in the context that you can get a legal draft. i.e. the required distance behind the rider in front. The pace slowed, so he got a break.
All I know is what this guy wrote in his blog. I wasn’t there. I also know that some IM races are draft-fests, for all I know he was one of the participants. But without evidence, over and above reading between the lines in his blog, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, as I take the starting position that everyone is honest and wants to hold their head high at the end of the day. My opinion will change for the worse based on my observations.
Still, I wouldn’t call it cheating. What were his options? Go off the front and pull the pack with him, to his detriment? Or drop off the back? Sometimes, when you get stuck in the pack, it’s extremely difficult to get out of it, especially if the pack’s large.
He stayed with the pack and got a four minute penalty, which probably more than offsets the advantage he gained by being in a pack. I fail to see how he got an unfair advantage.
Isn’t at least part of the problem here that the guy wrote a blog that was, shall we say, braggadocious. I mean, if you’re going to toot your own horn like that, you better have a pretty clean race. I, for one, get tired of reading “race reports” that are nothing more than self-congradulatory pats on the back. As I said the other day in a post, if you have a great race, shut up and let other people do the bragging for you. Otherwise, it’s meaningless. Think of the great pros that you admire out there. How many of them write this kind of crap? They don’t. They report facts about their race. Not about how great they were.
Yup. A friend of mine had a saying. “if you lose, say little. if you win, say even less”
Any athlete’s race report will be self-centred though. That is their only point of view during the race. Some folks are better at writing than others. (i class myself in with the “others”).
Any athlete’s race report will be self-centred though. That is their only point of view during the race.
Agreed. But it’s different to report strategy, cadence, hr, problems, interesting events that happened during the race, than to say something like, “I was smokin’ . . . most awesome race of my life . . . etc”. You’d never hear Gordo, Legh, DeBoom talk like that (I don’t think).
What, that he meant to physically assault the AG’ers? I don’t believe that. I do know that in a crowded swim, it is really easy to accidentally smack the back of someone’s head with the back of your hand. If the conditions are choppy, my arm recovery tends to be more forceful, so if I do make contact it will tend to hurt.
Still, I wouldn’t call it cheating. What were his options? Go off the front and pull the pack with him, to his detriment?
how would riding while not drafting be to his detriment? Isn’t that they way we should be riding during a tri? just asking for further clarification.
SOmetimes it’s difficult to extricate yourself from a pack without either significantly slowing down or speeding up. And even though that’s what we should still do anyway, failing to do so doesn’t necessarily mean it’s cheating. More often than not, it’s simply a rule infraction that merits a penalty. But the world is so black and white for me to call it cheating.
I think this sentence “At times the group slowed down because no one wanted to go to the front and work.” indicates that he slowed down with the group when he could have just as easily held the same pace and passed the group. However no one wanted everyone drafting off of them so no one did this.
I agree with your assesment that getting caught in a group is a pain in the ass and sometimes difficult to get out of. However it sounds, at least in this case, that the drafting action was intentional. Anytime you’re adjusting your speed to “stay with the group” seems like a draft pack.
Yes, the drafting was intentional, in that he rode at the limits of what the rules allow. If you are at those limits (i.e. not in volation of the rules) you can still get a draft.
Somebody singled this guy out on the gordo world message board as well. I think that’s crap personally. I’ve never met John, but I read his blog and he raced and trained hard. He’s also new to the front end of these races and the dynamics seem to be very different up there. I can’t really say since I’ve never been involved in that part of an IM but it seems like he is catching shit for no reason.
I’ll also say that when guys at the front end put out race reports that its a tremendous contribution to our sport and if they are going to get flamed less of them will do it…oh wait, very few do it as is. Maybe there is a reason.
Anytime you’re adjusting your speed to “stay with the group” seems like a draft pack.
~Matt
Or just smart racing.
You have to accept if you are doing any of the big IM races that you will be riding (at some stage) in close proximity to other riders. It’s a result of having 1800 to 2600 riders out on a course. The smart thing to do is to find a group and ride legal. Sure it’s drafting but those are the rules, they allow drafting. In Hawaii it was 5m front to rear. If you dont like the rules dont do the race. Adjusting your speed to stay with the pack may be the best thing for your race. Always ride legal distance and race smart.
oh… so since he’s new to the ‘front end’, he should be allowed to get away with more than other people. That makes a lot of sense. I see it clearly now.
Honestly, I don’t get people sometimes… this dude admits to speeding up and slowing down so he can benefit from a pack so he can take a break during a non-drafting race and people come to his defense that it’s OK for him to do this… I honestly can’t grasp what is going through people’s heads sometimes.
Why would someone take the side of someone who has admitted to not racing inside of the rules? I just don’t get it. Remember, this type of person is going to be the first person you complain about when they beat you.
I think my race report came across WAY OFF if that is what you took away from it. Or maybe you are just a jack-ass
SWIM:
I did not attack people intentionally. This problem was raised with the RD at the pro meeting and in the past they had a seperate pro lane for us for the second lap. I added that part to show that it was a problem and they need to go back to the old way to avoid this. I felt bad for the people we ran into and over.
BIKE:
What I was happy with was that the big group broke up (in part b/c of me and my effort take two fliers off the front) and that the remaining people in my smaller group all got penalties. I want to be clear on this point. I am against drafting and was not PROUD that there was drafting. I was bummed that there was a big group. I was HAPPY to be near so many strong people, b/c I have never seen the front of the race like that before and was having the best ride of my life after quiting my job so I could train full time. It was exciting to be near all these great athletes that I only read about. Moreover, if you read my report fairly you would recall that I was keeping it legal, so much so that other pros we yelling at me for being so far behind (15 meters at least) from some of the guys.
I was not PROUD of getting a penalty but HAPPY that I got one along with the four others b/c it seemed just and fair.
Attacking me; flaming me, thats just is lame, hurtful and a gutless move.
I think a RR can say “I raced the best race of my life” without being a braggart. There is a difference between being proud of a great race and shoving someone’s face in it. It’s kinda like porn “you know it when you see it”.
oh… so since he’s new to the ‘front end’, he should be allowed to get away with more than other people. That makes a lot of sense. I see it clearly now.
Honestly, I don’t get people sometimes… this dude admits to speeding up and slowing down so he can benefit from a pack so he can take a break during a non-drafting race and people come to his defense that it’s OK for him to do this… I honestly can’t grasp what is going through people’s heads sometimes.
Why would someone take the side of someone who has admitted to not racing inside of the rules? I just don’t get it. Remember, this type of person is going to be the first person you complain about when they beat you.
Trev
But he didn’t get away with it, did he? He was penalized four minutes.
I thought it was a refreshing race report in that he was honest about what went on out there, including his drafting. He didn’t brag about it. Rather, it was very clear that he thought that aspect was unfortunate. Don’t you think that the mere fact that he was forthright about it indicates that he wasn’t cheating? I guess the world really is that black and white for you.