Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration]

Triathlon Forum
61

Holy cow I was thinking kind of along these lines this morning! If we have a prescribed workout, we know what the intensity factor target should be (or what the average power target is), as well as the duration. With these we can calculate the kJ output for the whole ride and maybe even changing conditions along the way to get prompted to eat/drink more or less often. I’m pretty good with the workload part of this calculation but it seems to get messy for the other side (fueling)…the Saturday app is helping me along though.

Rich

I know product development well and I think Alex trying to keep this “simple” is a noble quest!

For some, they’ll want real-time updates based on intensity, etc.

But for most, the general recommendation gets them what they need at the level they need it.

I can see product development occurring where more advanced features are accessible by more advanced users, but to be honest, that should be a future development.

(sorry for the tangent, I really like thinking about how to make things).

62

I am with you! But I also like that there is refinement possible for future versions and maybe my ramblings will trigger a good idea in someone else

63

Just thought I’d add my experiences thus far. I’ve been using the App since early February for all of my run in excess of an hour (8 - 12 miles generally). These are my harder runs that involve: mile repeats, extended tempo, fartleks, hill repeats, etc. During that time, the weather here in Dallas has ranged from 17F/20%rh to 87F/65%rh.

Saturday allows you to select “fasted” or not-fasted…and alters the fuel/hydration accordingly. I’ve used it in both situations, across these runs. I always weigh pre/post run and have taken the time to ensure that my pre-weigh starts before consuming any hydration (and in just my skivvies to minimize errors—sorry for any mental images that may induce).

Two observations:

  1. Every run has ended between 0.9 - 1.1 lbs below starting weight, regardless of duration, intensity, temperature, or humidity. I have zero issues with consuming the volume, nor any GI issues. Historically, I’ve been an under-drinker. But, I’ve finished every run, so far, sucking an dry straw from my vest.

  2. I’ve found that following the fueling recommendations allows me to complete the prescribed workout without the same feeling of “exhaustion”. By that I mean I get to the point where I can feel the workload in my legs, and can tell if I keep going I’m going to dig a deep hole before my brain says “I’m done…time to stop”. Mostly, because the first few times, I keep going to the same normal “done” mental state, only to be cooked for 3-4 days before I could get back to it. So, I’ve had to adjust my cues for when to stop, so that I can still do tomorrow’s workout and the next day…I need to be able to tell when “one-more” will be too many…rather than feeling like “no more” is just right.

Interesting food for thought.

64
  1. I’ve found that following the fueling recommendations allows me to complete the prescribed workout without the same feeling of “exhaustion”. By that I mean I get to the point where I can feel the workload in my legs, and can tell if I keep going I’m going to dig a deep hole before my brain says “I’m done…time to stop”. Mostly, because the first few times, I keep going to the same normal “done” mental state, only to be cooked for 3-4 days before I could get back to it. So, I’ve had to adjust my cues for when to stop, so that I can still do tomorrow’s workout and the next day…I need to be able to tell when “one-more” will be too many…rather than feeling like “no more” is just right.
    There’s a strong testimonial here somewhere.

“Warning: Saturday may cause euglycemia. Before using Saturday consult with a trained professional to learn new cues to stop training, because your hypoglycmia-induced mental weakness won’t be there for you anymore.”

“Saturday. Train so hard you injure yourself.”

I don’t think those are going to fly with our branding & marketing department (wife).

65

I am with you! But I also like that there is refinement possible for future versions and maybe my ramblings will trigger a good idea in someone elsePlease keep them coming! It’s really good to hear what folks are thinking / wishing for. Or especially what folks are frustrated by. We probably share your pain points and want to hear about them.

66
  1. I’ve found that following the fueling recommendations allows me to complete the prescribed workout without the same feeling of “exhaustion”. By that I mean I get to the point where I can feel the workload in my legs, and can tell if I keep going I’m going to dig a deep hole before my brain says “I’m done…time to stop”. Mostly, because the first few times, I keep going to the same normal “done” mental state, only to be cooked for 3-4 days before I could get back to it. So, I’ve had to adjust my cues for when to stop, so that I can still do tomorrow’s workout and the next day…I need to be able to tell when “one-more” will be too many…rather than feeling like “no more” is just right.
    There’s a strong testimonial here somewhere.

“Warning: Saturday may cause euglycemia. Before using Saturday consult with a trained professional to learn new cues to stop training, because your hypoglycmia-induced mental weakness won’t be there for you anymore.”

“Saturday. Train so hard you injure yourself.”

I don’t think those are going to fly with our branding & marketing department (wife).

I might put a **slightly **different spin on it. But, it is specifically branding and marketing’s job to take engineering speak, and make it sound enticing—even if by the time they are done with it, its patently false. If (as the product manager) I don’t read it and cringe, they aren’t trying hard enough.

67

Just a quick update that the latest update should solve any folks subscription issues. The rest of the app has been working great. But it’s been blocking us from taking your money, in some cases. And in other cases it’s taken your money and then pretended like you weren’t subscribed. (not cool!!) If that’s you, please reach out and I can fix it immediately with a VIP override I can grant you. This recent update prevents that from ever happening again for new subscribers. (v1.0.44, rolled out today.)

68

Feature request

For the speed nectar recommendation, it’d be great if you could prescribe by bottle or by oz/ml.

The leap from 4.7L of water and 3.125cups of sugar into how much to pour into a each bottle is tough.

Perhaps it could be
Bottle 1: ask size,
Ask if bottle 2 → ask size
Etc.

Then sum volume as a check and amounts per bottle.

69

This is coming asap. Hotly requested for sure and has been in the pipeline since inception in 2021. It is now up next on our dev schedule of major features.

70

Despite being budget focused, I broke down and bought some maltodextrin to see if I felt different with the gatorade/sugar/sodium citrate concoction.

Now my question: can the maltodextrin be a substitute for sugar in your recipe? I.e, can I swap out the 150 grams of sugar I would otherwise use with 150 grams of maltodextrin (paired with a serving of gatorade powder for taste)? Or do I need to add fructose?

71

I’m not Alex, but I think I know this answer from reading his posts =P.

Sugar = 1:1 glucose:fructose.

Maltodextrin is just glucose, so you need to add fructose as well. 75g of each in your example.

72

It depends on what ratio of glucose to fructose you want.

Old-school is 2:1. New school is 1:0.8. I use 1:1. Lots of folks are doing it. The scientific literature will soon agree.

Acceptable options according to the literature reviews are: 2:1, 1:0.8. If you really look hard at what’s not being said in the literature reviews, 1:1 is being left out of major reviews and meta-analyses.

Sidebar:
My wife is applying to be on some of the committees that help decide what gets published by major journals and nutrition governing bodies, now that she’s board certified as a sport dietitian. The literature has been behind the times and she feels pretty strongly about moving it forward. Meanwhile, I play on internet forums. :slight_smile:

Here’s how to get each ratio, from sugar & maltodextrin:
Old school: 2:1 glucose:fructose ratio → 1 part maltodextrin to 2 parts sugar. In your case: 50g maltodextrin plus 100g sugar.New school: 1:.8 glucose:fructose ratio → 1 part maltodextrin to 8 parts sugar. In your case: ~17g maltodextrin plus 133g sugar.My school: 1:1 glucose:fructose ratio → Pure sugar. In your case: 150g sugar.
Here’s how to get each ratio from fructose & maltodextrin, if that’s more your style. Not as cheap. Just as effective.
Old school: 2:1 glucose:fructose ratio → 2 parts maltodextrin to 1 part fructose. In your case: 100g maltodextrin plus 50g fructose.New school: 1:.8 glucose:fructose ratio → 5 parts maltodextrin to 4 parts fructose. In your case: ~83g maltodextrin plus 67g fructose.My school: 1:1 glucose:fructose ratio → 1 part maltodextrin to 1 part fructose. In your case: 150g sugar…errr… sorry: 75g maltodextrin plus 75g fructose.
If you’re using a relatively small contribution from gatorade, it won’t matter if the gatorade is 2:1, 1:1, or something else. Ratios are clean and pretty. Physiology is anything but clean and pretty.

Hope that helps!

73

Hello!

Same here with the “PBs page”. I only have the option to set my fastest 100m swim, but nothing else.

Also, when I tried to check previews triathlon recipes, It only let me check the swim recipe, not the other ones.

Everything else works like a charm!

74

Just wanted to put it out there that I’ve been using the app for about a week and it is phenomenal. I have always done my swims first thing in the morning and never had any sort of fuel aside from water just assuming that it would make me feel like crap. Turns out, just by drinking some nectar on my way to the pool and in between reps I finish my swims with times that are just about as good as how I start. I’ve used it for other workouts too but the swim has shown huge improvements, especially in the last 1/3 of the swim with just this tiny adjustment.

Suggestions that I think would help, some of which I think you’ve gotten:
Post workout review especially including – what % of the fuel did I ingestCalibrating the amounts to typical water bottle sizes–if it’s more than one or 1 1/2 fine, but a thoughtFor the run…I get that fueling consistently is great but…carrying 2 full water bottles for a long run is tough so suggestions/hacks for this would be fabulous!
Thanks for this app. It’s great!

75

Hello!
Same here with the “PBs page”. I only have the option to set my fastest 100m swim, but nothing else.
We totally created a point of confusion here! The swim personal best input is just to help us help you predict your swim activity duration because early-on in testing lots of users found it cumbersome to have to know exactly how long their swim would be because they “thought” in yards or meters, rather than duration. (We will soon include the option to input duration or distance, just so you’ve got the choice).

We will add more personal bests soon too, especially once we’re synced with other platforms. If you happen to use TrainingPeaks, you can poke them to let them know you’d like us to get to sync up with them, by voting here.

Also, when I tried to check previews triathlon recipes, It only let me check the swim recipe, not the other ones.
Oh! You, my friend, are a winner. You found a design flaw that we were unaware of. I’ll rectify this ASAP, and let you know when I’ve fixed it and pushed out an update with the fix.

If it is currently mission-critical for you to view those recipes now, you can work around this in the meantime by going to your “Past” activities tab, then long-pressing on the triathlon activity and moving it to today. Once it’s moved to today, you’ll be able to view all the recipes within it. We’re fixing this ASAP because this is totally a ‘hack’ workaround that nobody should have to do. Are you trying to edit the activity details by tapping “edit” in the activity detail view?

Everything else works like a charm!Really glad to hear it!! Seriously appreciate you taking the time to share any issues you’re having here.

76

I looked but couldn’t find the answer

What is the cost of the app after the 14 day free trial please?

77

Just wanted to put it out there that I’ve been using the app for about a week and it is phenomenal. I have always done my swims first thing in the morning and never had any sort of fuel aside from water just assuming that it would make me feel like crap. Turns out, just by drinking some nectar on my way to the pool and in between reps I finish my swims with times that are just about as good as how I start. I’ve used it for other workouts too but the swim has shown huge improvements, especially in the last 1/3 of the swim with just this tiny adjustment.

Suggestions that I think would help, some of which I think you’ve gotten:
Post workout review especially including – what % of the fuel did I ingestCalibrating the amounts to typical water bottle sizes–if it’s more than one or 1 1/2 fine, but a thoughtFor the run…I get that fueling consistently is great but…carrying 2 full water bottles for a long run is tough so suggestions/hacks for this would be fabulous!Thanks for this app. It’s great!
Q2 (starts tomorrow) is a team all-in on making the “how do I actually make and carry this fuel” a better user experience. Bottle sizes, prescriptions, app memory/automation/prediction, hydration pack considerations, etc.

I would love to hear how you’d optimize your run-fueling experience, personally. (other folks’ input is more than welcome here too.)

Do you ever use a hydration pack? I’d love to hear any and all details of how you do it, or what your magical, seemingly impossible, ideal scenario might look like. Sometimes I can work a bit of magic nutritionally/strategically, and I just need to know what folks prefer. I know there are a lot of folks (myself included) that, for running, the mindset is: “can I finish this run without dying? Okay I won’t carry anything.”

We are planning to add a feature like “minimalist - balanced - nutrition optimal at all costs” where you can note how much you’d like us to help you modify your workout fuel or shift some of the fueling and hydration beforehand. I suspect the “minimalist” is going to be a really popular option. :slight_smile:

And, yes, those other requests are hotly requested too. Please keep it coming. Feedback from people using the app is what drives us forward. Especially if your opinion is, “it’s got serious problems!”

To any lurkers here reading this: If the app isn’t your cup of tea, or if you have any manner of negative opinion of it, please let us know here (or email me at alex @ saturdaymorning.fit if that’s easier) and I would love to learn from you. You are a wealth of important knowledge and I’d be happy to chat about anything nutritionally you’re interested in, as a trade for your time. We can talk shop or I can answer questions unrelated to the app, or we can just chat about whatever you like, if you’re also willing to tell me why the app doesn’t work for you. I would love to hear from you, truly.

78

I wish that I had a ‘magical ideal situation’ but I don’t. I do not use a hydration pack, though I used to for long hikes etc, but it just feels like dead weight on my back and feels like it slows me down. Probably more feel than fact there, but so it goes.
I do have a belt that I wear to carry my nutrition (maple syrup and salt usually–and my phone for long runs) which I sometimes do pop a water bottle in but only a small bottle really fits. For my longer runs (I’m marathon training right now) I have done a few things including dropping bottles off on the road ahead of time and/or just running by my pool and running in to grab a drink real quick. I’ve often subscribed to ‘can i survive with nothing?’ approach which doesn’t seem great. I am not able (or just don’t) consistently do any of these things though and, having done it last saturday for my 20 miler, found it super helpful. I’m just honest enough with myself to know that I won’t do this all the time cause often I don’t know when in a weekend day I’ll be running, having 2 small kids and all, thus the question.
thanks

79

Gotcha. Very much appreciate the introspective response. Sounds like there is a fair amount of uncertainty in approach, and like any method we implement is going to need to be flexible and easy to navigate. That’s really helpful.

80

I looked but couldn’t find the answer

What is the cost of the app after the 14 day free trial please?2.99 a month, which comes with lifetime grandfathered-in pricing.

I know folks had concerns around Strava’s tactics for rate increases. Ray’s piece that contrasted TR to Strava was eye-opening. We hope to obviate that concern completely for our early adopters. We’re calling that the first 5000 subscribers.

Humongous thank you to you all who have joined us, and another thank you to those of you who have shared us with someone. Could not be more grateful over here.