Off Season Weight Management Program/Discussion

Triathlon Forum
1

If you look at Lance vs Jan, you could almost say that yearly, Jan would lost the TdF in December. Why…he’d gain 15 lbs and then have to “burn it off” as he ramped up his spring cycling volume. Lance would gain 1-2 lbs and never have to waste valuable build time working against his own body.

I was having a discussion with a friend of mine and he would like to drop from ~180 to 160 before tri season next year. I encouraged him to lose some weight for optimal performance, but not to lose too much weight. More like a lb for 3 out of 4 weeks a month for 3-4 months (total of 10 lbs or so over 4 months).

The focus of this posting is “when to lose” weight.

If you are already super duper lean, gaining a couple of lbs in the off season is fine…in fact healthy. But pulling a Jan means that you are going to have to lose weight as you do your spring volume build. This is bad.

Why is this bad ?

When you are ramping big volume (say 15-25 hours per week), you want your body to be in a state of equilbrium (as much as humanly possible). You want to recover from one workout to the next. You need to “carb up” to some extent for those 6 hour rides or 3 hour runs. You need to get enough protein post workouts to rebuild. In short, you’re going to be eating a lot a and don’t want to limit calories.

If you really ramp volume and are also limiting caloric intake, then you feel perpetually fried. Your body is fighting to get back to its “entry weight” that it was at before you started doing huge volume. In talking to several atheltes, they feel better in big volume phases when they are not losing too much weight at the same time. A few lbs here or there will drop off, but 10’s of lbs usually means that burnout is not far over the horizon. I’ve seen it happen to too many good athletes.

So where does that leave us?

Realistically, the off season is not the time to pile on lbs. If you are a few tens of lbs over your ideal projected race weight, it would seem to make more sense, to work on getting to somewhere in the range of next year’s goal weight now, while training lower volumes and perhaps limiting caloric intake somewhat. At least this way, you are not fried for all your workout (given that they are a lot shorter and lighter).

Sheila Kealey, one of the top masters XC ski racers in Canada and also a top masters triathlete writes an excellent series on nutrition. The focus of the latest article centres around strategies for limiting unneccessary calories when we don’t need them:

http://www.xcottawa.ca/article246.php

In general, the articles are well written and thought out.

I’m no expert on diet, but what I do know is that huge volume training and dropping large amounts of weight don’t go hand in hand. The school of experience tells me that this is true. So it seems to me that November is when you want to start your “body composition reset plan” for 2006.

Dieticians, coaches, and doctors, please comment on these observations from a layman. Does this make sense?

Dev

2

If 20lbs is to be shed, I’d assume a good bit of that is muscle? That is the situation I’m in anyhow. If I went from my current 71ish kg’s to 65ish kg’s and kept the same absolute power values that’d be huge. However, to do that, I’m going to have to lose muscle and fat. How do we go about losing muscle? It seems to this layman that big volume on a limited amount of calories, especially protein, would leave my body unable to recover, which may in fact be what I want…muscle wasting?

3

Once again Dev, nice thread and good topic…

I’m not a dietician but I do have some experience with weight loss. I’m down approximately 77 lbs. over the last 3 years. (265 to 188 - as of this morning). 49 of those pounds have been from January 1 of this year.

I’ve been the ‘healthiest’ during my training when I’ve kept my caloric intake just under my output. I’ve avoided having a huge discrepancy between training volume and nutritional intake. I tried that once to crash some weight off and only succeeded in getting sick.

For me the base for the weight loss was laid last winter during my numerous indoor bike sessions. This upped my metabolism and enabled my body to handle the increased training load over the summer. When my body could handle the load the weight fell off naturally.

Therefore, to my untrained eye, I would suggest that those looking to lose weight for next season avoid the natural inclination to ‘let loose’ during the dreaded days between Thanksgiving and Christmas when every food item is covered in sugar and chocolate.

Now, all I have to do is to stop my mother from complaining that I’m too thin…

B.
Ridgewood, NJ

4

“For me the base for the weight loss was laid last winter during my numerous indoor bike sessions. This upped my metabolism and enabled my body to handle the increased training load over the summer. When my body could handle the load the weight fell off naturally.”

I think the key point you mentioned is upping metabolism.

Again, I am no dietician, nor exercise physiologist, but one of the quickest way to up the metabolism on low volume is a daily diet of short easy runs (say 40 min) followed by 20 min of circuit traiing in the weight room focusing on moderate weight high rep. Off 1 hour per day, a lot can be done with this so that your metabolism remains elevated a long while after you are done training. Again, I am not sure why running and weight training achieve this better than cycling or swimming, but I suspect it is the “weight bearing” nature of these activities. This coupled with moderate caloric intake, and you are “good to go”.

5

What is this weight loss that ye all speak of? Won’t losing weight make me more susceptible to crosswinds and keep me from descending well? What if I become too lean and don’t have fat stores to draw on for energy???

6

…then you will suffer from the Rasmussen effect and crash all over the place in the final TdF TT :-).

7

The maximum recommended wt. loss per week is 1 -2 lbs. The goal of most weight loss programs is to lose fat and maintain muscle mass. However extreme reduction in calories will result in muscle loss as well. While it has recently come into question, the common thought is that each adl. pound of muscle that you add thru. strength training burns an adl. 30cal per day–that is at rest–therefore to increase your Basal Metabolic Rate-- lift weights to increase muscle mass–

Any aerobic activity you do will burn adl. calories at a higher rate but once the activity ceases (or soon after) so does the adl. caloric burn–A combination of Strength Training and Aerobic activity along with a caloric intake that is cumulatively lower than the cumulative activity (including the BMR) will result in weekly weight loss .

I certainly hope that was helpful…

8

So Beppie, to some extent this is why the daily “gym rat dosage” of 40 min running plus 20 min of weights with reduced calorie intake is a good starting point. Metabolism is jacked up after the exercise, but you can still do this type of “short training” on a calorie deficit without burning out and getting sick ?

9

Dev

yes the combination of aerobic activity–running-- and strength training is great. But my recommendation to you make sure that you give your muscles 24 hours rest after working them. AND the common thought of lifting ‘light’ isn’t gonna give you increased strength or mass. You want to find a weight that fatigues the muscle in 8 - 12 reps-- you can do fine with 1 or 3 sets-- don’t need to do 3 sets – research supports one set gives you 80% of the benefits of 3 sets–so if time is an issue-- one set is adequate. The gold standard is lift 3x per week- if you alternate muscle groups you CAN lift every day–but rest assists in the anabolic, building, process of strength training.

10

Beppie, excellent point about 1 set vs 3 sets. I always thought that there is something to this. I like going for 20 min: leg extensions, hamstring curls, calf raises, step ups and squats. I try to do this twice in 20 min (essentially 2 min at each station twice).

Personally, I am not trying to lose any weight. If anything I am in the other camp of “don’t gain too much in the off season”

I’ve always been on the “brink” where if I get lighter, my run improves, but my pure TT power in a tri bike segment drops and I am slower on the bike. In Ironman, this usually means I get to T2 fried. The past year, I carried more weight, biked stronger but ran a bit slower in shorter tris (actually biked a lot quicker and ran a lot slower). At Ironman though, I also ran quicker than normal carrying more muscle on the legs.

11

I agree w/ Bep.

When I swam in school , thats what we did.
Swim in the AM, then lift in super set mode at the gym.

I used the same program to go from my 2002 190lb frame to my current 176lb race weight(I’m 5’10 )

Resistance training at least 2x/wk is a great way to keep up one’s BMR. Especially if combined with an aerobic workout.
Just keep the weights at a minimum so you don’t bulk up .

Aim for a calorie deficit day no more than 3 days of the week.
Any more than that,unless you supplement w/Glutamine properly, you’ll be prone to sickness.Its worse if you have kids.

I’m going to try going down to 165lbs for my IM next year.
So this winter is going to be a very strict one as far as food.

I call it my Siberian Gulag plan.

Mostly fish,fruits,veggies and my famous Absolut Smoothie : )

12

Beppie, excellent point about 1 set vs 3 sets. I always thought that there is something to this. I like going for 20 min: leg extensions, hamstring curls, calf raises, step ups and squats. I try to do this twice in 20 min (essentially 2 min at each station twice).

Personally, I am not trying to lose any weight. If anything I am in the other camp of “don’t gain too much in the off season”

I’ve always been on the “brink” where if I get lighter, my run improves, but my pure TT power in a tri bike segment drops and I am slower on the bike. In Ironman, this usually means I get to T2 fried. The past year, I carried more weight, biked stronger but ran a bit slower in shorter tris (actually biked a lot quicker and ran a lot slower). At Ironman though, I also ran quicker than normal carrying more muscle on the legs.

Basically, what you are doing in your strength segment is more aerobic activity. If you are doing 2 mins of an activity it is not strength training. You may increase the endurance of the muscles in your lower body-- but I recommend that you work upper body and lower body 3x per week for strength in the ‘off’ season. You can get thru a full body workout 8 - 10 exercises, 8 - 12 repititions, in 25 - 30 mins. Some research supports the reduction in sports related injuries–bottom line strength training does support joint integrity. AND my other recommendation is that you get out of gravity some for your joints. Do vertical work in teh pool-- deep or shallow water running.

13

Resistance training at least 2x/wk is a great way to keep up one’s BMR. Especially if combined with an aerobic workout.
Just keep the weights at a minimum so you don’t bulk up .

You won’t bulk up if you continue with aerobic training (certainly less volm. than that done 'in-season) and keep your intake in check-- but if you don’t lift enough weight you are really wasting your time… weight heavy enough to fatigue the muscle in 8 - 12 reps for strength and 15 - 20 reps for endurance. (but those last reps should REALLY be challenging!) I really think that if you are not doing as much in-season aerobic training that you will greatly benefit from strength training.

14

Everyone here talks about weight loss from AeT type training. For some reason, I more noticeably feel and see weight loss after intervals, repeats and sprinting, especially 30-40 minute tempo runs during a week. The duration needs to be about one hour of painful shit. Wait a few days after a few of those, and I feel like skeletor man. I’m not sure if its metabolism or what.

15

A valid point. My wegiht has dropped over the last 4 years as I have spent longer and longer in tri (before i was a gym rat/200m sprinter). I dropped from 92kg down to a race svelt 85kg at times. Funnily enough when i was 85 my power was crap but I seem at my best all round balance between bike and run at 87kg. I lift weights 3x per week and do a mixture of speed and weight to shake things around. The leanest i have ever been was 5 years ago when i was living on weights and circuit training incidentally. Just banging out the miles isn’t enough in my experience.

16

If 20lbs is to be shed, I’d assume a good bit of that is muscle? That is the situation I’m in anyhow. If I went from my current 71ish kg’s to 65ish kg’s and kept the same absolute power values that’d be huge. However, to do that, I’m going to have to lose muscle and fat. How do we go about losing muscle? It seems to this layman that big volume on a limited amount of calories, especially protein, would leave my body unable to recover, which may in fact be what I want…muscle wasting?

You will lose the muscle mass that you don’t use (like upper body muscles). Endurance training, especially cycling, doesn’t stimulate hypertrophy: look at the best endurance cyclists in the world, who are skinny little s***s. If you do exercises that stimulate hypertrophy (like, say, lifting weights), you won’t lose the muscle (but you will lose aerobic capacity).

In 2001, I went from 198lbs to 172 from February to August through eating less and riding more (and really, really hard: nearly every ride was either a 29mile hilly TT or a flat 33mile TT effort); culminating in 970 miles in August. In September, I had the best ride of my entire life (5th overall at the Hillier Than Thou Century with over 11,000’ of climbing in 5:58), before or since.

17

<< In September, I had the best ride of my entire life (5th overall at the Hillier Than Thou Century with over 11,000’ of climbing in 5:58), before or since. >>

Yeah, but just think how much better you could have done if some of those rides had been replaced or supplemented with… squats! The mind boggles at the possibilities! :wink:

I like to lift a bit more in the offseason (but not squats, actually) since I usually ratchet down the run and bike action, and reduce my minimal swimming to zero. It gives me something to do, that I enjoy, and I don’t care if my cosmetic bulk doesn’t actually make me any faster.

18

Bep, i’m totally with you on the 8-12 reps and 1-3 sets, but really do believe in a 2 set minimum with short rest (say 30 seconds) to keep recruiting deeper muscle fibers and keep the heart rate up to some extent.

i will say though, that 2 times a week weight training can be done, working one body part a week–legs can be twice, one heavier day and one lighter.

i like to push/pull, and do the upper body all at once: back/chest, shoulders, tri’s/bi’s. in these upper body sets, it’s easy to get in some legs by doing wide squats with shoulders. so, wide legs, toes out squats with military press, super setted with upright row (still wide squats), arnolds (still doing wide squats) and finishing the set off with side laterals (feet together squats that aren’t as deep, or no squats). this is a good way to gain lean. to gain mass, i would not do anymore than 2 excersises supersetted together. it’s even better to wide squat while standing on 2 bosu balls. one for feet together squat.

huge supersets like this are hard, but are awesome for women…and is very fast and focused.

i need to get my ass running and weight training…those two things change body compisition like nothing else! (at least for me…)

19

exactly. the muscle lost for weight loss is the muscle that is build up to support the extra weight. i read something somewhere that the body can build up 2 pounds of muscle for every extra 10 pounds of fatty gain.

10 pounds is alot…grab a 10 and run or hike with it!! it’s easy to see how the body can build up muscle to support that extra weight.

20

Bep, i’m totally with you on the 8-12 reps and 1-3 sets, but really do believe in a 2 set minimum with short rest (say 30 seconds) to keep recruiting deeper muscle fibers and keep the heart rate up to some extent.
**Ok one thing at a time: You get 85% of the benefit of 3 sets with one set of work. So if time is an issue one set is great. I was exposed to some research from Wayne Westcott where 2 sets had a DIMINISHED return for strength gains --there was no explanation offered-- just statistics (not caloric output). You will recruit muscle fiber as it is needed due to the amt of weight you are lifting. I’m not sure I understand “deeper Muscle fiber”-- you may be referring to fatiguing the slow twitch fibers more when working past fatigue and doing ‘drop sets’?? **
i will say though, that 2 times a week weight training can be done, working one body part a week–legs can be twice, one heavier day and one lighter.
**One, two or the gold standard of three x a week is great for gains in strength. Certainly you can do one muscle group or one segment of the body each time. You just want to make sure to give the muscle 48 hours rest before strength training again. ******
i like to push/pull, and do the upper body all at once: back/chest, shoulders, tri’s/bi’s. in these upper body sets, it’s easy to get in some legs by doing wide squats with shoulders. so, wide legs, toes out squats with military press, super setted with upright row (still wide squats), arnolds (still doing wide squats) and finishing the set off with side laterals (feet together squats that aren’t as deep, or no squats). this is a good way to gain lean. to gain mass, i would not do anymore than 2 excersises supersetted together. it’s even better to wide squat while standing on 2 bosu balls. one for feet together squat.
Push/Pull is great-- basically you want to make certain you get all the major muscle groups to balance the workout ie chest/back, bi’s/tri’s, hamstrings/quads. Your squat work sounds great…keeps HeartRate elevated and you are getting the legs toned—I would REMOVE upright rows from any workout you do unless you compete in body building competitions. Upright rows will cause shoulder impingement-- not so good for swimmers–or anyone really-don’t know what Arnolds are?? ANYTHING on a BOSU is AWSOME work!! ****
huge supersets like this are hard, but are awesome for women…and is very fast and focused.

i need to get my ass running and weight training…those two things change body compisition like nothing else! (at least for me…) That is the ticket-- what works for you–but almost everyone will benefit from some form of strength training and cardio training–you go girl!