Obama: Negotiations With Taliban

The Coffee Shop
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Obama: Negotiations With Taliban Possible

Much of the progress in Iraq over the last two years came from deals with insurgent groups who had previously targeted American troops. Now President Obama is suggesting that the military might try to replicate its success there by trying to split the Taliban in Afghanistan. In an interview with The New York Times, Obama says: “There may be some comparable opportunities in Afghanistan and in the Pakistani region,” where his generals believe negotiation could yield benefits. As for the economy, Obama declined to predict when it would finally pull out of its current slump but said he would “get all the pillars in place for recovery this year” so that the next economic expansion would run smoothly. Striking a balance between acknowledging the seriousness of the economic crisis and offering hope for the future, Obama called the downturn a “wrenching process” but encouraged Americans not to become too spendthrift out of fear. “I don’t think that people should suddenly mistrust all of our financial institutions,” Obama said, adding that people shouldn’t “stuff money in their mattresses.”

Read it at The New York Times

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In the early part of the Iraq War, we were in fierce battles with the Sunnis and the thought of dialog with them was laughed at. Once we aligned ourselves with them it led to a significant decrease in the death of our troops. Since the situation with the Taliban is getting worse, what do we have to lose by engaging in the same form of diplomacy?

What we have been doing for the last 8 years is simply not working so he deserves a chance.

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Any thoughts on this or are you just in the business of posting links to articles?

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Did I read somewhere here you are in India?

I guess you must be doing the hippy-dippity back packing thing. So there’s no chance you were in danger of being in one of them 5 star Hotels that got commando raided in Mumbai. Usually such Commando raids are done on enemy combatants in military areas. But this was done by Muslim Terrorists on 5 Star Hotels and the main train station, in the middle of the Central Business District where there basically were only defenseless and unwary civillians. Nothing surprising. That’s their common pattern.

Looks like hippy-dippity back packing does have it’s advantages so long as you don’t go to the train station.

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In the early part of the Iraq War, we were in fierce battles with the Sunnis and the thought of dialog with them was laughed at. Once we aligned ourselves with them it led to a significant decrease in the death of our troops. Since the situation with the Taliban is getting worse, what do we have to lose by engaging in the same form of diplomacy?

What we have been doing for the last 8 years is simply not working so he deserves a chance.

I have to admit, one of the good things to come out of the Iraq war is how much we have learned about tribes and the power of local leaders. These people live in a very simple world, where the basics of life are not always met. In Afghanistan, the Taliban provides a lot of money to support the local populations. The Taliban is not providing the critical infrastructure the country needs as a whole, but in many cases are providing the basics (food, shelter, clothing) that the local people need to survive. Do we need to talk to the Taliban? Some of them, yes. Can we “win” in Afghanistan? That depends on what the goals are. History reminds us that for any country that has ever tried to go there, “winning” in Afghanistan is not possible.

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**In the early part of the Iraq War, we were in fierce battles with the Sunnis and the thought of dialog with them was laughed at. Once we aligned ourselves with them it led to a significant decrease in the death of our troops. Since the situation with the Taliban is getting worse, what do we have to lose by engaging in the same form of diplomacy? **

Nothing. We need to find moderate Taliban and try to co-opt them. Talking to your enemies in an insurgency is not a sign of weakness, but a sign that you recognize that you must win the political fight as well as the military fight. I would add, though, that the situation that occurred in Iraq with regards to the Sunnis, who basically rebelled against Al Qaeda in Iraq and their fundamentalist Islamic views, is very different from what we face in Afghanistan. In Iraq, the Sunnis came to us; here, we are going to the Taliban. Big difference, and it might behoove us to wait until we get enough troops there to deal with the Taliban from a position of strength, rather than as a sign of desperation on our part. Right now there doesn’t appear to be much to motivate the Taliban to want to talk to us…they are holding a lot of the cards right now.

Spot

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I guess you must be doing the hippy-dippity back packing thing.

Dude. You need to read some of Casey’s posts. He’s working with people (mostly children) who are sick with such trivial diseases as AIDS, and for THAT he gets my utmost respect. I don’t always agree with Casey’s points of view, but he certainly is walking the walk when it comes to community service. He ain’t just backpackin’ across India.

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**Did I read somewhere here you are in India? I guess you must be doing the hippy-dippity back packing thing. **

Nope, no backpack. My wife and I biked from Idaho across the U.S, Europe, Middle East (including Iran), Pakistan and ended up in India. We volunteer our time working for an orphanage for children with AIDS.

**So there’s no chance you were in danger of being in one of them 5 star Hotels that got commando raided in Mumbai. Usually such Commando raids are done on enemy combatants in military areas. But this was done by Muslim Terrorists on 5 Star Hotels and the main train station, in the middle of the Central Business District where there basically were only defenseless and unwary civillians. Nothing surprising. That’s their common pattern. **

Unlike most people who label all Muslims as terrorists, I actually biked through Iran and Pakistan. I can say from first hand experience that I wish we were treated in the West half as well as we were in Iran/Pakistan. In all our time in those countries, we rarely paid for accomodations as we were invited into people’s homes. People in small towns would call ahead to the next town where they would fight over who would host us. People would stop their cars and offer us food/drink. In all my time in America, we were invited into people’s homes on a handful of occassions and no one ever stopped to give us assistance on the road. It’s not to say Americans are less friendly, they aren’t, but over here, people are too occupied with their own lives. In those countries, family and friends are far more important.

You get your news from the media but I was there and you will never understand unless you do the same.

**Looks like hippy-dippity back packing does have it’s advantages so long as you don’t go to the train station. **

I can’t really comment on that.

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**We need to find moderate Taliban and try to co-opt them. Talking to your enemies in an insurgency is not a sign of weakness, but a sign that you recognize that you must win the political fight as well as the military fight. I would add, though, that the situation that occurred in Iraq with regards to the Sunnis, who basically rebelled against Al Qaeda in Iraq and their fundamentalist Islamic views, is very different from what we face in Afghanistan. In Iraq, the Sunnis came to us; here, we are going to the Taliban. Big difference, and it might behoove us to wait until we get enough troops there to deal with the Taliban from a position of strength, rather than as a sign of desperation on our part. Right now there doesn’t appear to be much to motivate the Taliban to want to talk to us…they are holding a lot of the cards right now. **

Excellent analysis.

You certainly have a far more realistic perspective than me. Maybe I’ve become too much of an idealist :slight_smile:

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Afghanistan has always been about tribal factions who fight against each other. It has been this way for a thousand years…the idea that we were going to go in and make some sort of functioning stable democracy in just a few years is silly. The best we can hope for is to prevent the use of Afghanistan as a base for terrorist operations. Beyond that…forget it. If we have to engage moderate Taliban to prevent more radical Taliban and Al Qaeda influence, so be it.

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Further evidence you are truly a douchebag.

As of today, we don’t use the term enemy combatants.

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What’s that quotation about opening your mouth and removing all doubt? I’d go back to just cutting and pasting news summaries…

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Better to fight for something than live for nothing.

George S Patton

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**Maybe I’ve become too much of an idealist :slight_smile: **

I’d expect nothing less from a hippity-dippity backpacker… :slight_smile:

Spot

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I’d expect nothing less from a hippity-dippity backpacker… :slight_smile:

Ha.

Funny thing is that I have seen a lot of these type hanging around “finding themselves” and they are quite interesting to talk with. I was in a small cafe one day in Bangalore and started talking with a few. They were in their early 20’s and said they had to get out of the rat race so I asked where they worked prior to leaving the U.S and they said they never really worked but upon graduation decided to travel.

I also noticed they only hung around the Lonely Planet sites with other English speakers and were really not accomplishing much of anything but I guess were making some kind of statement.

I did get a chuckle out of being called a hippity-dippity backpacker though.

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**Any thoughts on this or are you just in the business of posting links to articles? **

Well I was more interested in seeing others post their opinions rather than I imposing mine.

But since you asked, my first thoughts were:

  1. In Iraq there’s this serious Sunni vs Shiite thing going back to the early Saddam days. So sure, they don’t mind becoming a little more friendly if it benefits them that way. Same as the Taliban were very happy to receive US weaponry and even training to defeat the Russians.

Now what’s the story with the Taliban after 9/11? Are they on your side or Al Qaeda’s? To them you are not even a brother Muslim, what compunction have they to hold any kind of sense of loyalty to you? Their definition of sense of loyalty is only to their extreme ideology and how they interpret it. This is aptly demonstrated by how brutally they slaughter their own (whole families) for the slightest infractions of their ideology. Infractions which are behaviours that any other human outside their religion considers as the norm.

  1. Yes many in the West see Muslim inhuman suffering going on around the world. Lebanon, Palestine, Chechnya etc. Many rally in sentimental cause of human rights issues in favor of relieving their suffering.

But here’s a reality check …

Why are these Muslims always on the brink of extreme? Extreme suffering, extreme cultural and religious habits, extreme terrorism against innocent civillians … Why?

Could it be because they are simply extreme? Could it be that somehow they bring this extremism to themselves including their extreme sufferings? Could it be that if they weren’t so extreme in their beliefs and actions, they wouldn’t be so extreme period; which includes much of an end to their extreme suffering if they could but won’t choose to go the moderate route? … at least not without some extreme encouragement.

  1. Well if we can agree that the problem is an ideology of extremism. If we can agree that it is. If we can also dispell that dilusional notion that it is just a few extremists and instead recognize the mass behavioral patterns in Pakistan, Indonesia and the Middle East etc., we can then start to admit the extent and nature of the problem.

  2. So Mr Nicety-nice Barack Hussein Obama newly elected first Black President Messiah and hope to all African Americans and to the world at large? Do you think you can walk on water? Part a highway through the raging river?

If you’ve got a group of psychopaths who hate you, the way you live, fear that your lifestyle might corrupt the very soil they walk on and pollute the very air they breathe and would like nothing better than to wipe it out by killing you and your family wherever you stand including in your own home … and more crucially their belief is set in stone and is all they have known since the day they emerged from between their mother’s thighs … offering them the chance to become bum buddies may not quite do the job. … don’t take my word on that, just look around you and see what’s going on … Yeah that’s you I’m talking to Mr President.

In our modern era, how was extremism dispelled. Nazi Germany? The Empire of the Rising Sun? Look where these people once radical extreme ideologists are today and how they behave in relation to the rest of the world?

  1. So you ask for my thoughts? My thoughts are that this is such a widespread problem. That the only way to minimize it is to take action to give each incident a crushing blow without holding back where it raises it’s ugly head. The action must be committed and intense to the extent that like the Japanese, they have no choice left but to moderate. I don’t advocate going nuclear everywhere, but certainly to not hold back non nuclear action on the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Abu Sayef, Jamiah Islamia, Hezbolla and Hamas etc. And certainly don’t put a handbrake on Israel from doing a good job.

Nukes? If Iran likes nukes so much then what’s all the debate about? Just give it to them once confirmed, just before they are able to use it or pass it on to their radical Muslim brothers to use. Certaily don’t go the Palsy-Walsy route and let it come back to bite us in the arse.

N. Korea and nukes are a dog chasing after us wanting to take a chunk out of our rear end. The cause is thanks to another another excellent salesman, ex-President BJ Clinton and his olive branch ways. The problem is that radical ideological religious are even a lot more extreme than Kim Jong Il and he’s just one person where as bad Muslim ideology is global. It’s like comparing a Chihuaha to a pack of Pit Bulls.

Yes unfortunately to quell extremism it requires pretty extreme measures. We don’t look to target civillians but collateral damage is inevitable. The Muslms themselves don’t seem to have that much regard for their own collateral damage except when it serves their purpose to use it to pull at the heart strings of the enemy to weaken them and their resolve. As for collateral damage on our side, there is none, since to them that is their by far preferred easy and vulnerable target.

OK, I’ve got this sneaking suspicion that you actually might not be interested in what I have to say as much as coercing me to do some work beyond cut n paste.

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**Any thoughts on this or are you just in the business of posting links to articles? **

Well I was more interested in seeing others post their opinions rather than I imposing mine.

By selective posting, you are giving your opinion.

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Nope, no backpack. My wife and I biked from Idaho across the U.S, Europe, Middle East (in
**including Iran), Pakistan and ended up in India. We volunteer our time working for an orphanage for children with AIDS. **

I have little tolerance for hippy-dippity types who take on self-righteous activist attitudes when they don’t contribute anything at all except their own self-indulgent desire for a free’er lifestyle. They don’t even contribute to humanity as a working person.

My bad for assuming you were one of them.

Like I implied I only saw a glancing post of someone congradulating you on being in India. Also I am not part of the LR inner circle and neither do I want to be. To me it’s just a way to waste time and exchange some ideas. All props to you and your wife for what you do with your time. You are a better person than I. The most I can be motivated to do is give donations.

Unlike most people who label all Muslims as terrorists, I actually biked through Iran and Pakistan.

I don’t know about most people, but believe it or not, I don’t label all Muslims as terrorists.

**I can say from first hand experience that I wish we were treated in the West half as well as we were in Iran/Pakistan. In all our time in those countries, we rarely paid for accomodations as we were invited into people’s homes. People in small towns would call ahead to the next town where they would fight over who would host us. People would stop their cars and offer us food/drink. **

Here’s the thing. Almost all cultures where Islam has embedded itself are cultures that are very welcoming and warm. It is the religion that pollutes. I would be willing to bet that all those people who approached you whilst Muslim by birth and name are not ones who go out of their way to practice the religion to the letter. If you really got to know them you would find that they have their doubts and differences. Thing is under the vice like grip of this religion in their communities they just keep their mouths shut. Those who are true devout Muslims would have chosen to steer clear of you. They would not want to co-mingle with infedels.

If one is to travel through Malaysia for example, it becomes glaringly obvious the difference in people’s attitudes toward visitors in the more moderate parts in contrast to that in the more devout locations.

It is also glaringly obvious the contrast of the attitude of a care free Muslim by birth and name only, to the attitude if he suddenly starts to become serious about religion. It’s like born again Christian gone awfully bad.

In all my time in America, we were invited into people’s homes on a handful of occassions and no one ever stopped to give us assistance on the road. It’s not to say Americans are less friendly, they aren’t, but over here, people are too occupied with their own lives. In those countries, family and friends are far more important.

Lot’s of not nice things go on in America, lots of horrible things too. The difference is that at the foundation there is a culture of decency and human rights and willingness to accept all cultures.

You get your news from the media but I was there and you will never understand unless you do the same.

News reports on terrorist attacks are actual report of some of what goes on and basically factual. Although I don’t do the welfare work I have rubbed shoulders with many Muslims all my life and continue to do so. It’s not a recent thing where I decided to come from the West to do.

*Looks like hippy-dippity back packing does have it’s advantages so long as you don’t go to the train station. *
**I can’t really comment on that. **

Of course you can’t because there is no comment to be made. You as the Do Good Guy, no sarcasm meant, it’s just for a lack of a better term, I feel would lack the peripheral sight to see the whole picture.

Truth be told, human beings are all different. There is no one gentle solution fits all. Sad but true.

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Further evidence you are truly a douchebag.

What evidence is that?

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**What’s that quotation about opening your mouth and removing all doubt? **

What brilliant quotation is that pray tell? And do explain how it fits relevant to me or perhaps it may have more relevance to yourself?

** I’d go back to just cutting and pasting news summaries… **

Do what you like, no one’s stopping you.