I’m experimenting with using both GU gels and Accelerade as part of my nutrition for 1/2 IM along with teting some real food to go along with it – pretzels, bagels, bars, etc.
So far, no problems (i.e. no GI problems) during traing – but I haven’t tested this with anything really long so far.
RE: GU and Accelerade: 3 questions…
Am I getting too much of anything?
Am I not getting enough of something?
Am I not getting something that I need?
Any other suggestion would be appreciated…Thanks…
In theory if you wanted to eat snickers bars and drink coke for 10-11 hours and were able to do so with practice I dont think there is any reason why you should not. People eat the strangest S**t at ironmans, of that there is no doubt.
That said why do you want to eat bagels and pretzels? its a race not a picnik.
If you want solid foods at some point I’d take a couple of power bars for the bike, they work for me, find out what works for you. I am sure calorie wise I could get by on liquids and gels alone but I seem to do a little better with the bars as well.
As far as to much or not enough, what are you talking about? calories? you dont say how much you are taking in so only you can answer that, but if you mean like Iron or Protein? no thats not a problem for one day.
I would however think about salt IF you pespire a lot and if you MIGHT need it practice it as that can throw your stomach off.
Andrew
Practice what you want to do on race day. Do on race day what you practiced.
I revealed my secret weapon in the “Gatorade” post below. There was a heated debate about its merits. Fine with me, I don’t want everybody using it anyway…but since you asked. Bag the simple sugers. Too high an osmotic load per calorie. Same reason someone would dehydrate stranded in the middle of the ocean, too high an osmotic load. If you combine Gu and Accelerade you will push osmotic load too high and could develope stomach cramps which are a race killer. I don’t want to rehash that debate but will give you my special formula. Get Carbo-Pro which is pure maltodextrin (glucose polymers). Put 9 scoops (1000cals) in a large water bottle. It will completely dissolve and will have suprisingly little flavor. That’s all you need calorie wise. Take a sip every 15mins. Hydrate with water from aid stations. Take 2 salt tabs during the bike. It is simple, light, virtually foolproof and most important easy on the stomach. You may do fine with accelerade and Gu but you better be carefull to dilute just right or your stomach may be toast. Thats happened to me more than once until I found a better way. Gastric problems are very common and a big reason is mixing gels and 7% simple suger drinks like Gatorade or accelerade. I’m not saying your plan wouldn’t work, just that there is a better, safer way. Let the flames begin!
personally, for any sort of longer distance effort, i don’t think anything beats a good old banana. which i have found to be available at most aid stations. i like gu as well, simply because of the flavor and a seeming sweetness craving i get. and finally, i absolutely love a cup of coke once or twice during the run of a longer race.
A couple of questions: How many calories are you planning to consume per hr? How much liquid can you process in an hr under your normal training conditions? How long do you plan on being out there?
Reason I ask is simply that if you are out there for say 5.30hrs total (1/2IM) and plan to consume 500 cals an hr on the bike (say 3 hr bike ride = 1500 cals), I am guessing here, but that would be about 1 gel (120 cals), one 20 ounce bottle Accelerade (120 cals) plus 1 bar at 250 cals (clif) Total of 470 cals. You need to have three 20 ounce bottle, 3 gels and 2 bars maximum. You also need to chase down the gel and bars with water. Throw in a bagel (200 cals on average) plus pretzels, that is a lot of food to carry around.
Going back to original question you seem to have all the bases covered in terms of carbs and salt (pretzels) but it may be easier to use salt tablet or rely on Accelerade (I am not familiar with its rehydration properties) Pretzels are hard to carry and eat on the go, I tried at IM one yr. But first it migth be wise to figure out what combination, how many cals you can consume (and have tried in training) how hot its going to be (how many pretzels or salt tablets will be needed) if you have not done so already.
I am with Slick on the liquid (maltodextrin) but even there I suffered some stomach problems, probably due to volume and not enough water to chase it. Also used a very sweet tasting product that might have caused the problem. Experiments continue!
OK, I’ll bit and try it, do you have a good online source for maltodextrin or carbo-pro? I am not looking to get a 50lb bulk bag or anthing like that. Also, do you ever go with a lower concentration and a little flavor? If so how do you flavor it?
Thanks
A
I usually drinl it straight because it has little taste and I like that but you can mix it with and other sport drink of fruit juice to add some flavor. Here is a link for Carbo Pro. Check the “Gatorade” post below for a source of bulk maltodextrin
Listen genius, where did you go to Med school? Of course maltodextrin gets broken down to glucose but the vast majority of this occurs in the small intestine which can rapidly absorb glucose as its broken down due to it’s huge surface area compared to the stomach and active transport. If you knew a little more about human anatomy and physiology you might understand this concept. Osmalality issues in a race affect the gastric lining to a greater degree because there is no active transport of nutrients across the mucosa. I’m done argueing with you because you have a know it all attitude based on incomplete understanding of human anatomy and physiology.
I’ve got a better idea. Get a 20 oz water bottle. Put 1000 cals (9 large scoops) of Gatorade powder in it. Fill with water. Go do a 50 mile ride wih that and one other bottle of water. Run right after. According to your ramblings this should be be different than maltodextrin. Go on. Try it. I dare you.
I suggest you actually DO an Ironman or train long distances using all of these different products before you babble about the " late Joe Schmoe" who conducted some obscure study under who knows what type of conditions. I’ve tried all this stuff extensively under race conditions and KNOW that you are full of crap. Just for fun this very morning I did a brick and mixed up a double strenghth bottle of Accelerade (2 scoops). This gives 280cals and an osmolality 4 times blood serum. Sure enough about a mile into my run gastric cramps set in and I had to slow down considerably to get them to go away. bear in mind I rouninely use twice that concentration of Carbo-Pro and have NEVER had a problem. You just can’t concentrate simple suger concentration solutions more than 7-8% without getting into trouble. I know. Not because Dr. Jollypants or some other joker wrote some obscure paper to keep his cush teaching job but because I tested it MYSELF.
First of all this has nothing to do with the practice of medicine, something you clearly would have difficulty with. Second, I read medical journal articles EVERY DAY. You have to be a critic because 95% of PUBLISHED studies are severly flawed in one way or another. How many times are initial studies of drugs or treatments or diagnostic tests met with great optimism only to find subsequently that they weren’t so great after all. No more so is this true than in the field of nutrition where most of the studies are terrible , small subject volume, poor controls, poor methods. We are bombarded in the media by this junk. Unlike you, I have worked in an ER. When somebody is dehydrated and can take orally you don’t give them a HYPERTONIC solution. Every med student in the country knows this. They must get a HYPOTONIC solution to drink. For IV fluids you initially give ISOTONIC fluids to replace blood volume then maintain with HYPOTONIC fluids. Never HYPERTONIC. Have you ever treated anyone in the ER. Didn’t think so.
There simply hasn’t been any good research done for Ironman racing nutrition. Ironman is near the extreme of human endurance and stress.The studies you keep referring to ad nauseum were done at either low levels of exertion or shorter duration or both. Even if the studies were excellent (which as stated above, I doubt), you can’t compare what is needed for say a sprint or oly to the Ironman. Too entirely different animals. But then you wouldn’t know, would you.
No disrespect to either Slick or PC, but I’ve followed your catfight for a few days now, and was both entertained and informed.
I’m not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, I do have a degree in exercise physiology, and I’ve been a competitive cyclist for more years than I care to admit. I just had to say that only because I need to toot my own horn sometimes.
Anyway, You both present your arguments well, but the nod goes to Slick because I completely agree that just because a study validates a hypothesis, it’s not proof that it will work in the real world.
My favorite example of this is Coca Cola. It’s still the beverage of choice with many Euro pros. They get it in their feed bags and the stuff is gold within the peloton. Not high tech, no studies to prove/disprove that it works. However, it does work. I’ve used the stuff many times over the years. I’ve bonked using it, but I’ve also ridden well using it. Same goes for Gatorade, Accelerade, Cyto…
Bottom line is racing conditions change a lot of parameters that simply cannot be duplicated in a study or test, so real world results absolutely cannot be discounted, even if a study cannot back it up. One also cannot fully appreciate the unique needs of an ultra-distance event until he/she does it. I’m sorry PC, but until you’ve been through the fire, you really cannot fully understand the needs to get through it. Sure, you can learn and prepare and do your best to avoid mistakes, but you will not know what works best for you until you actually do it, a few times.
Personally, I use Accelerade and swear by the stuff. But, i have teammates that will do the very same race that I do, but use gatorade (even watered down) and gu. It’s all what works best for you, based, of course, on what we have learned from science. However, the “science” is not the gold standard, it’s only a reference.
Finally, I appreciate you two going at it. I really mean that. I don’t think either of you should resort to the mud slinging (even though I get a good chuckle), but we are all big kids, let’s play nice in the sandbox.
AL
For some reason I think if Not a Pcer ever came out there might be some humble pie going around but thats just speculation…
“few if any try to get by drinking it alone”
Oh really? You know that for a fact? You have studies to prove it?
Don’t state your opinion as fact, my friend. Many, many athletes will do events on Coca Cola alone, i have and i know many who do and have.
Maybe one of you can help. I am hopelessly BOP. My idea is I need to bulk up to clyds so maybe I have a chance at some hardware. What is the scientifically proven grams/min of 32.4% maltodextrin, 61.8% gatorade powder, with a splash of coke, that I would need to ingest to make clyds for my sprint tri coming up? (well almost sprint tri 75 yd swim, 6 mile bike, 1.25 fun walk) What about placement of water bottles, or how about some relationship advice. You guys crack me up, OPINIONS are just that. Seriously, can’t we all just get along?
Bingo, now you are getting it.
Don’t hide behind the science, use it as a guide and then find what works best for you.
But, don’t discount what works for others. I know world-class riders that will kick ass (yours and mine included) on Moon pies and bottled Nestea.
“it just says that they either drank a large enough volume of it to meet their fluid needs despite the slower rate of gastric emptying of such a 10-12% sol’n, or that they were able to perform well despite some degree of dehydration”
“Allow me to reiterate: the osmolality of a drink has no significant effect on the rate of gastric emptying, the rate of carbohydrate oxidation, or the probability of GI distress.”
Hmmmm, Seem to have contradicted yourself professor. Which line of BS is correct? I’m awaiting your usual pompously arrogant answer.
Slick,
I have got to give you the nod on this discussion…and a very entertaining one at that. You mentioned that you use only Carbo-Pro and Salt tabs to handle your caloric needs, do you ingest anything else along with this to get your electrolytes as the Carbo-Pro is minus them?
Curious because I like less sugary drinks myself and would rather not eat the gels if there were a alternate solution worth trying.
Thanks
Aaron, I can’t believe you referred to this person as PC. He’s adamantly anti-PC to the point he is known as “not a PCer”.
Neither the “actual PCer’s” (which have actually used the product and seen results that convince us beyond a reasonable doubt that PC training has a beneficial effect on our race times) nor “not a PCer”, wish to be associated with the opposite camp.
Just wanted to clear that up 
Commence firing…
Yup. I use Thermolyte from the same company that makes Carbo Pro. Contains electrolites and vit B6.