I was on a long ride (for me) this last weekend and went a little over 3 hours (miscal’d the distance a bit, like 25 miles). All I had was water, no electrolytes, gels, etc. Once it was done I took in gatorade, orange, beer in that order which tasted great (not just the beer). Didn’t feel horrible on the ride but noticed some fatigue particularly in the last 1/2 hr, had to drop the mph some.
I guess it depends on the conditions but what’s the downside of 3-4 hr training rides with just water? the last 30-45 mins were noticeably uncomfortable.
In the 508, I’ll be taking their Perpetuem mixed as a paste for sustained energy and to also keep up calories. I’ll be mixing those with Endurolyte, electrolyte pills, and the occasional Hamer Gel. Their products are low in sugar, and simple, fast acting sugars that help prevent bonking and allow for efficient transmission of energy.
The folks from Hammer, and I believe, that too much sugar is not good. And too much acid from electrolyte replacement is not as well. In last year’s 508 I had issues with too strong of an electrolyte mix burning holes in my stomach…
too much acid from electrolyte replacement is not as well. In last year’s 508 I had issues with too strong of an electrolyte mix burning holes in my stomach…
Do you have any idea what the pH of your stomach is?
Thanks for the info, I’ve heard good things about hammer. What I’m
wondering is what happens if you don’t fuel correctly for
3-4 hr training sessions. I understand you can bonk and that’s an obvious bad thing but what
other afflictions can you incur short of bonking? do you do more harm than good?
I believe you would perform best on small batches of wood-fired oven baked Italian bread with only the finest of French sea salt for electrolytes. Or I could be wrong and you would actually go super fast on darn near anything from McDonald’s.
Not stalking - just having a little fun. My wife loves Hammer stuff, too.
To the original poster:
There is not an inherent problem with just riding with water, but it is very time/effort/conditions variable. If the pace is moderate and the day is not too hot you should be fine. If you were starting to feel a lot of fatigue in the last 30 minutes you are probably lucky you didn’t have to ride an addition 30+ minutes because you could have been setting yourself up for a good (bad) bonk. I don’t think it is the best approach though. If you go on just water, then EVERYTHING will taste good after the ride. I suspect that many people who have the problem of actually gaining weight during IM training are the ones that don’t put in enough fuel during the ride when it will be pushed in to the muscles and available for use relatively quickly. They deplete their muscular and liver carbohydrate stores during their workouts and then try and cram them back in the rest of the day. Unfortunately I don’t think they will accept the fuel as readily when the muscles are no longer burning the fuel, so the body has to store the extra fuel as fat. (I am talking about the muscles and liver accepting the fuel, not the stomach - which a seperate issue that varies a lot person-to-person.) If you put in small amounts of fuel consistently during your workout I think you can maintain strong levels of effort for a longer period of time with less drop off at the end of the workout, then you will need less food to resupply whatever deficiency you have when the workout is over, so maybe you won’t be as much of an eating machine 3 hours later.
Interesting, so going for 3-4 hr rides with just water is like a mini version of the diet/gorge cycle that dieters get into. And that would be consistent with the eat within 30 mins rule. Nevertheless, I think I read recently in Bicycling that from time-to-time you can break this rule if you eat your regular diet (don’t gorge). In this case you’re teaching your body to burn fats.
I like the idea fo the oven baked Italian bread with sea salt and maybe some olive oil and balsamic vinegar.
the downside is depleating yourself to the point that you can’t do it again the next day.
also, it negates performance, which effects the quality you’re getting from the workout.
one of my goals is to always finish strong as opposed to half dead or exhausted. if i finish strong that is encouragement to do it again the next day…whatever the workout calls for.
i have done 4 hour work outs with nothing but water. sometime i take in salt tablets but no carbs. I gradually built up to that time.
the key for me is that the ride cannot be too intense, it has to be in the fat burning mode for me in the mid 140’ HR. if it gets over that i can be in trouble. i usually take a power bar and or E-gels with me, now i will also take motor tabs or the e-gel electrolytes. I never use them unless i have to. i do this because one time i went on a group ride and had only water. and let me tell you i bonked big time!!! i told them i had to stop and ingest carbs and sit down, headache, feeling light headed, hypoglycemic and all. well after about 10 min. or so not sure, was not checking time. i was good to go. Ever since that time, i always carry something with me. even though i don’t use it.
but when i do key work outs i take in the nutrition, that i am going to use on race day.
and for me right now it is Hammer Perpeteum and Endurolytes, Also the Crank Sports E-gels for the run.
For one thing, you can become dehydrated, if you sweat too much salt that can become quite dangerous and the water that you’re drinking, - no matter how much, - doesn’t hydrate and offer you any benefit and you’ll overheat and could get heat stroke. That would also weaken your immune system. So, you need to replace calories and electrolytes to keep properly hydrated. I would recommend talking to the people at Hammer. I didn’t find them too biased towards their products. They have an 800 number. They also have a helpful Email group.
Like KittyKat implied, - IMO, - I too think that a lot of this stuff becomes more important for the next day, or the next ride, - or 5 to 10 hours later. Event’s like RAAM, or the 508, - or 2 X 200K over two days, - are when getting this dialed in is critical… Or of course, if you become too depleted on the bike on an Iron Man, - you could bonk on the run. A product like Perpetuem is designed to keep up your calories, and to give your more consistent energy over long periods of time, so that you’re strong through long events. It is also easy on the stomach and helps with acid issues involved with taking on the minerals needed from electrolytes that help keep you hydrated. This is especially true as most people lose their ability/desire to eat solid food with these long distance intensive efforts.
I used to be a big Hammer person, and it worked great. However, the ability to completely customize my nutrition plan, get everything I need ie. carbs, electro’s, protein, amino’s and flavoring, really was the best move for me. I never realized how important calories and drinkable calories were until I started to do the research. The boys over at Infinit got me though two IM’s and two years of training without a single salt pill or any of the hanous gels out there.
Hammer worked to for me, but I was spending to much on all the extra’s
i am not sure if this has been proven by reserach, but i notice that it takes me longer than usual to recover from a workout where i have bonked, even when i refuel after the workout. your muscles just break down more quickly than they should. i would really struggle on a three hour ride with no calories/electroyites unless it was a veeery easy pace and cool weather. i use hammer gel and am experimenting with electrolyte drinks. nuun has been recommended to me but i just hate the taste…
