Now that we are only running 2 hours max...How many bike K's before doing an Ironman

Triathlon Forum
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A few days ago, I posted about running no more than 2 hours to prep for an Ironman and focus more on biking. So let’s start the biking discussion. With the goal of getting to T2 fresh to make some semblence of a credible marathon, how many bike K’s do you need before your Ironman.

Let me just share some background. Thru the winter, I only did 300K on the bike, but I did do 2500K of XC skiing (mainly skate skiing) and there is a huge transfer to biking. I’d say every K of XC skiing is like 1.5K on the bike, but we’ll go with 1:1. Still, it is not specific, but once I really get into riding in April, it takes me around 2 weeks to get close to race fitness, usually within 90% of my high end speed in two weeks. So let’s say this equates to ~ 3000 K on the bike. By the end of May, I am up to full half Ironman race speed (~2:30 bike split). I still lack endurance to hold high end speed over a full 180K.

This year I got 5000 specific bike K’s in before Ironman LP, essentially crammed in during May, Jun, Jul. Add in the XC ski miles and its a virtual 8000K. Now, lots of these miles are “bogus” commuting miles, usually in the order of 100 - 150K per week. So let’s call it 1500K of very low intensity puttering. That leaves only 3500K of very specific “bolted to the aeropads” tri position riding.

The totals look like this Jan - Apr: 3000K XC ski plus very little biking May - Jul: bike Commute puttering at high RPM in roadie position with powercranks 1500K May - Jul: “bolted to the aeropads” tri specific position and intensity 3500K

Personally, I still feel that this is on the light side going into an Ironman if you truly want to have a fast Ironman marathon. All the cross training is great and helpful, but really, if you are going to ride moderately hard for 180K bolted in the aero position and then run a fast marathon, you need to do a lot more.

I’d be interested to see what you guys have in the “bank” coming into an Ironman. I’m thinking that 6000K of tri specific riding would be ideal. While on the one hand, riding indoors in the winter would be great, its not worth skipping out on my favourite sport (XC skiing), but I am sure for a lot of you, this is the ticket to getting a solid jump on Ironman bike fitness.

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Bike as many hours as possible without losing your family, your friends, your job, or your sanity or neglecting your swim/run.

Personally, I’ve never ran to my full potential. I’m a sub-3 marathoner, and my best IM run split is 3:54. I don’t do enough bike mileage… but I accept that as a time limited age grouper (see above).

If I had the time… 600k a week average. As it stands… I probably only break 300k a week a few times in the season… and probably average about 200-240.

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As a point of reference in the year that I ran a spring marathon in 2:48, I ran 4:06 at Ironman Roth…I had only 3000K total biking that year. This year, 3:18 in Boston (bit of a blowup), 3:44 in LP (steady run).

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I think you tend to start out with a false assumption that everyone’s experience and capabilities are equal to yours.

My wife could spend her entire spring and summer racking up the mileages you suggest and still not be ready for an Ironman. After a dozen years of triathlon, I could get ready for one on much less.

Now, you don’t seem to have clarified if this was total accumulated mileage or through the years, so I’m assuming you mean single season, or from the time you decide/sign up till race day.

I don’t keep track of total mileage. I find it a totally meaningless parameter.

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…not assuming everyone is the same as me. I am just wondering what most people try to go for. I think once I have 6000K in, my power-endurance balance get optimzed.

Not sure either if overall mileage/hours is meaningless or not. Some adapt quickly, for others, its a lot of repetition and consistency that builds the basic bike fitness. Davis Phinney used to say that until he had 2000K in, he would not even do a single rev of hard riding.

by the way, we are talking about a single season. I do agree, you leverage base and neuro/muscular memory from years past.

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Good thread. Will follow this discussion with interest.

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I did about 3000 km between January and IM Austria in July. Rode what I consider to be a slowish bike leg (6:25), then ran a 3:40 marathon. My stand alone marathon PR is 3:00.

My point is that perhaps you can adjust your effort on the bike to your bike fitness and still run a solid marathon. I soft pedaled much of the bike because I knew I didn’t have the miles in that I needed, and it paid off on the run.

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I agree that you can softpedal and still run a fast marathon. The goal is to run as close to one’s fresh marathon as possible without giving away too much time on the bike. No point giving away 50 min on the bike to gain 20 min on the run. I’m OK with giving away 5 min on the bike to gain 10 min on the run. There has to be a “net gain” with respect to soft pedalling. Otherwise, go as fast as you can on the bike and run slow.

Let’s put it this way. Most of us can predict swim split within a minute or so. This is the sport that is most “in our control”. On the bike you can predict loop one performance within a few minutes (conditions dependent) and second loop performance within 10 min. The further you get into the race, the higher likelihood of bad things happening. Predicting run split for most is +/- 15-30 min (usually minus).

There is something to be said about covering “as much ground as possible quickly and optimizing economy”. You could soft pedal the whole bike and still suck on the marathon. The later you get in the day, the less efficient your digestion. The likelihood of bad things happening goes up the longer you are out on the course.

I think ideally the goal is to get to T2 as quickly as possible with gas in the tank to run a fast marathon.

If you went 6:25 on the bike and 3:40 on run, could you have gone 6:00 on the bike at 3:45 on the run (net gain 20 min) ?

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When I did LP in 2004 I started the bike ramp up in March (it was a mild winter for upstate NY). I tried to shoot to average around 200 miles per week.

I track mostly hours so mileage is an estimate:

March 800 miles

April 1000 miles ( includes 400 mile Easter Bike Camp)

May 1000 miles ( includes 400 mile bike camp)

June 800 miles

July 800 miles (includes a two week big bike week beginning of July)

Total Around: 4400 miles (7100KM)

LP Time: 10:38, Bike: 5:38 Run: 3:47

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What is a ‘credible marathon’? Some time relative to your standalone capability (say +30min?)? I honestly think thats far more about pacing on the bike than it is the number of miles that are ridden before the race.

Drive up your functional threshold as high as possible with the time you’ve allotted for training and then target 70ish% if your mileage isn’t high, target 75-80% if your mileage has been ‘ok’ and target 80+% if you put in absolutely monster miles. %FT as it relates to your cycling training will determine whether or not your marathon is ‘credible’.

ot

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They’re good points Dev, but is that you can predict your swim and bike more reliably than the run because the run is harder, or just because it is last? Swap them around and see who can correctly guess their swim after 138 miles. THAT would be interesting.

I agree that it is counterproductive to gain 10 min on the bike if it’ll cost 20 on the run. I also think that many of us (me) get so caught up in wanting to show a good bike split that we focus on it to the detriment of our overall finish time. How does one know? I’ve used the “if I feel pain in my legs I’m going too hard” theory on the bike at Ironman only to have something else entirely unforeseen take me out on the run.

This and other things have had me thinking about our Saturday group ride and its value. We go for anywhere from 4-6 hours with absolutely no structure whatsoever. Just a big group of folks playing cat and mouse with each other all over northern Baltimore. How is this helping my “constant wattage” Ironman racing day plan? I don’t really think it is, which makes me think it is not just counting up clicks of the odometer that is important, but what you’re doing while clicking away.

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I agree that there may have been a more optimal balance than 6:25/3:40. Of course, that’s part of what makes IM such a challenge – finding that balance. Burning the extra watts and getting the heart rate high enough to bike 6:00 might have only cost me 5 minutes on the run, or it might have cost much more. With my limited training, I took the conservative route, tried to avoid watching the clock, and went out almost purely on HR and perceived effort. I should also say that it was my first IM, so I hadn’t experimented with my capabilities in an IM setting. Next time, assuming equal training, I might go a bit harder on the bike, as I suspect you are right and that some overall time could have been gained.

Your initial post seemed to be focused on how many bike training miles people might need in order to run a decent IM marathon. I just wanted to add my experience to show (though it’s probably obvious) that pacing is a major factor as well.

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Experience has taught me that 2000 miles are good for a half ironman. Right now I’m at 4200 miles in preparation for IMWI. Hopefully it’ll be enough.

BTW, I also have done a 3:20 training run, and plan a 3:40 before the taper. I don’t necessarly think that it’ll make me faster, but it will give me confidence.

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In 1993, I was at ironman Roth and a German coach told me that my Ironman run split should be within 20 min of my fresh run split assuming equivalent course and conditions. That was the year I did 2:48 fresh marathon and 4:06 Ironman Marathon. According to the coach, I should have been a sub 3:10 guy assuming that my bike prep and pacing were up to the run fitness. Clearly this was not the case.

That being said, I think fresh marathon plus 30 is a fair guage if you are well prepared on the bike and pace well.

With respect to long bike rides and group rides, I think there is a place for riding with others early in the season and even in your leadup, but at some point, you need to put your head down, bolt your elbows to the aeropads and then ride at ironman effort from 4-6 hours. You also have to try and do some rides where you only do at most one stop over 5-6 hours. No zillion pee breaks and nutrition breaks cause on race day, there are no stops. Seriously, how many of you have even done a 4 hour ride, solo, aero, not a single stop ?

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Your last point I think is very important. Riding 6 hours with the boys and stopping every couple of hours for a latte is not the same as 6 hours straight at ironman pacing. In the fall and spring when you’re just trying to get some ass time a latte ride is ok but during your Ironman push I think you need the long straight ride. You can do it solo or with a group. But, I find if I’m with a group I’m either going too fast or too slow at someone elses pace. So I tend to do those rides alone.

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Leading to IM Lake Placid: about 8000K since January, so, about 1000k a month.

Alex

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Sorry. And result: Bike: 5:36 (106th split); Run: 3:18 (15th split).

Alex

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I never really count my annual miles. But I knew I was ready for my last IM when my training partner told me: Hey Stefan, these 100+ milers feel like going to the grocery store now. :o)
We did a lot of them that summer. Two quick stops for filling up water bottles, then 60 min run off the bike. We started and ended the run on the local track in order to check the mile splits. It’s still my favorite day of the week.

Stefan

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I would say you should be handling 175 to 225 miles per week. That mileage would mean one long ride, one intermediate ride, some specific (hill, tt) work and some rest. If you do one 70-90 mile ride, one 40 mile ride, that leaves about 70 miles spread over 5 days to improve the weak points. At 225 per week, you are gonna be one of the fast bikers for sure. At 175 you will get it done. If survival is the goal, I would always try for one long ride a week, the rest of the week being short strength and power workouts. That way you get strong, and have the endurance. If IM isn’t your goal, you still need to log the miles and 175 is still the minimum to be a fast rider. Even if a 25 TT is the goal, it takes quite a handfull of miles to be good at it. Well developed cyclists can get by with small weeks here and there.

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“At 225 per week, you are gonna be one of the fast bikers for sure.”

I don’t know if I’d go that far… Maybe at 400 per week.