This morning’s third set was 20x25 SCY, with only 15 breaths total. What’s the point of doing these hypoxic intervals?
As one who breathes every 2 strokes, I called it a day (at 6:30am, that’s a poor choice of words).
For a triathlete, no point.
For a real swimmer, to practice maintaining a fast breathing pattern on the back half of a 100.
For a triathlete, no point.
For a real swimmer, to practice maintaining a fast breathing pattern on the back half of a 100.
So how fast should these be done, and how much rest? They seemed to be going awfully slowly compared to the 75s we had just done.
Just curious: how fast does a 48 year old guy have to be to be a “real swimmer”?
What!??!
Ken–there are a couple schools of thought here. One is that hypox sets help simulate the effects of high altitude training by breathing less in the water. But you can’t do that by not breathing, so that’s wrong.
What I take from Hypox sets is that the force you to focus on technique while struggling in the water (think of the last 5-600 meters in a 1/2 or Oly tri). Swimming is all about technique, and Hypox sets basically make you focus on being more economical in the water (ie swimming correctly while being uncomfortable).
The real question is, who the hell does Hypox sets that consist of 25’s?!!?
**How fast does a 48 year old guy have to be to be a “real swimmer”? **
Fast enough to do swim meets. Most reall swimmers do 50-200m distances regularly, so this hypoxic stuff can be useful there. Anything over 200m, you are gonna be breathing every 2 or 3.
So how fast should these be done, and how much rest? They seemed to be going awfully slowly compared to the 75s we had just done.
My mantra is that any main set should be done as fast as you can. I would advocate somewhere north of 30s rest, or else it will get impossible to maintain at the end, but I haven’t done any sessions like this in a very long time.
That’s wierd. I had the same practice. Where are you at? I’m in Indy.
What!??!
Ken–there are a couple schools of thought here. One is that hypox sets help simulate the effects of high altitude training by breathing less in the water. But you can’t do that by not breathing, so that’s wrong.
What I take from Hypox sets is that the force you to focus on technique while struggling in the water (think of the last 5-600 meters in a 1/2 or Oly tri). Swimming is all about technique, and Hypox sets basically make you focus on being more economical in the water (ie swimming correctly while being uncomfortable).
The real question is, who the hell does Hypox sets that consist of 25’s?!!?
Apparently, the swimmers at this Y do 'em. That includes two English Channel crossers (like hypoxic swimming is related to that). Am I correct in remembering that your blood is pretty much 100% saturated with oxygen no matter what level of exercise you are at (assuming you are breathing of course), and that it’s the uptake of oxygen that is the limiter, not the supply? So, limiting the supply of oxygen really doesn’t do anything at all?
For discomfort, I did the 15x100 on 1:40 “best average” set yesterday. The only way to maintain the pace for the last 5 or so was to really focus on technique, else the slippage was horrific. I held between 1:09 and 1:10 for all of them except #12, where I did 1:11 (#13 was 1:09). Amazing how :30 rest becomes inadequate after 10 or so of them…
That’s wierd. I had the same practice. Where are you at? I’m in Indy.
Me, too! Which lane were you in?
(actually, I’m in New Jersey)
Just curious if you guys pull your workouts from the web somewhere. I do the Y masters as well.
You are correct. Another angle here is that lung capacity diminishes with age, old guys like you (hahah) who are doing a set where you breath every 3 may be struggling as much as a 14 year-old doing a set where he breathes every 7. Damn you’re old!
Just kidding…
Many coaches do sets with hypox and don’t even know why, but they are helpful. If they make you work on technique while being uncomfortable without forcing you to go through a 1500 yard AT set, then that’s good, right? Do something like this:
6x150 (15-20s rest) breating every 2, 4, and 6 by 50. Most are 3,5,7, or something like that, but why start bilateral breathing at age 48? (that’s rhetorical, for anyone out there who wants to preach bilateral breathing)
Just curious if you guys pull your workouts from the web somewhere. I do the Y masters as well.
Yeah, a couple of people seem to get their workouts from the web; everyone seems to have agreed to do whatever they bring in on their respective days. I’m trying to change this random attitude towards something more focused. Either I live with them, or I end up doing 200s on 2:45 in the slow lane.
Mr. Egan, if I’m sentient in another 20 years, I’d love to see what kind of physical condition you are in. No respect for your elders.
The reason the 1500yd set is better than a hypoxic set is clearly because it also builds endurance, rather than just killing brain cells.
I can do bilateral breathing; I just choose not to. 
Back in my real swimmer days (late '70’s) we did controlled breathing drills, but rarely 25’s without breathing. Ours were more like 3/5 breathing drills, or no breaths 10 yrds from either wall, in order to motivate fast turns. Back then the rational was/is(?) that breathing compromises technique, more in some less in others, and that swimming with less breathing is faster, assuming you get sufficient oxygen to last the event with good form. I’ve heard coaches trying to reduce breaths per length as a way to improve times, perhaps as a proxy for stroke effeciency? Assuming that for a given breathing pattern and constant lap times, fewer breaths means fewer strokes (or vice versa) per length, so stroke efficiency must be improving. Assuming your CV system can adapt to fewer breaths over a given distance you could perhaps improve your overall performance by breathing less.
Cheers
There is NO scientific evidence that hypoxic swimming is of any value. It did not work in 1972 and it does not work now.
DougStern
I have wondered the same thing, but just about every masters coach does them so I figured I might as well learn to take something from them.
What I ended up practicing when these things happen is to take all the extra hitches and hiccups in my stroke out and make it as smooth as possible. When doing this, I can hang with 7 strokes between breaths, otherwise I need air at about three.
For reasons not entirely clear to me, my speed while breathing every third stroke seems to be a very good indicator of triathlon swim speed.
I’m with Doug. No scientific reason to do it.
But… for some swimmers I feel that it can be used as a DRILL ONLY for helping with balance and breath control., but thats it. 2-5 100’s breathing 5-7 strokes at moderate pace and give some pointers, drills and focus points after each 100. I’ll use it as a warm up set prior to getting to the training.
Kevin,
So many coaches do what their coaches did. Hypoxic swimming was the rage in the early 1970s. We all did it because Doc Counsilman thought it would simulate training at altitude. Two years later he realized that it did not work. Very few coaches read that part. They continued to use it as a part of their training system. Their swimmers were subjected to it and believed it worked because the trusted their coaches. Now we have second and third generation caoches who still support the dogma.
If you do not turn your head to breathe you will swim straighter because there are so many errors linked to breathing patterns: when to breathe and how much do you turn your head.
We have to teach swimmers to breathe at the best possible point in the stroke so tht the head does not create compensating errors. This is easier said than done.
I am always learning new things about swimming both for my own swimming and in teaching others.
DougStern
I totally agree. I remember doing countless sets in college with no-breathing or limited breathing a main part. 25’s no breath…50’s with one breath, etc. Definitely won’t help a triathlete, would only help sprinters and mid-distance swimmers. I keep telling people to bilateral breath - something I started off not doing, but wish I had. It’s only going to help balance your stroke out, improve your distance per stroke and keep you going straight.