NIE says Iran has no active nuclear weapons program - Redux

The Coffee Shop
1

So the NIE said something liberals liked and it got splashed around here. Now the UN is saying things the administration likes, so it should get play here too.

A couple of snippets:

“Iran’s increased transparency amounted to a doubled-edged sword as it reaffirmed Tehran was forging ahead with uranium enrichment in defiance of U.N. Security Council demands to stop all proliferation-sensitive nuclear activity.
The IAEA findings, which also said Iran had failed to clear up all outstanding questions by an agreed February deadline, may spur the Security Council to adopt a third round of sanctions against the Islamic Republic as early as next week.”

“In unusually strong wording, the IAEA said in a report Iran had not so far explained documentation pointing to undeclared efforts to “weaponise” nuclear materials by linking uranium processing with explosives and designing of a missile warhead.
Publishing details of the intelligence, the IAEA described tests on a 400-metre (1,300 ft) firing shaft seen as “relevant” to atomic arms research and a schematic layout of a missile cone “quite likely to be able to accommodate a nuclear device”.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2270940820080223?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

ps. Anyone appreciate the irony; liberals embraced the one NIE report that they liked the summation of, and conservatives are embracing a UN report?

2

Well, that’s good enough for me. Let’s start the invasion plans. Never mind an exit strategy, let’s just get 'em.

3

I’d let you serve as a rifleman in one of my fireteams, kid. You got moxie!

T.

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Make him the assistant gunner- I want to see him hump the tripod!

5

we can have McCain lead the charge - his bad war karma is worse than Bush’s
.

6

Can I wear a gas mask and chemical suit in the 120F heat as we roll down the streets of Tehran? Will we be treated like liberators with rose pedals strewn in front of our rolling tanks? I can’t wait to be hugged and kissed by the population. They’re going to LOVE us!

7

You wouldn’t know what an M17A2 and MOPP gear is, maggot, let alone know how to use it. Now, back in the ranks, pick up your 60mm mortar base plate (I’ve moved you to the mortar section 'cuz your rifle scores were for shit, lad) and start doubletiming! (haha!)

T.

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**Can I wear a gas mask and chemical suit in the 120F heat as we roll down the streets of Tehran? Will we be treated like liberators with rose pedals strewn in front of our rolling tanks? I can’t wait to be hugged and kissed by the population. They’re going to LOVE us! **

They just may, given that the below snippet from Reuters seems to describe a system of oppression of women that’s becoming more-and-more common in the Islamic Republic. I honestly don’t have a problem with the people of Iraq. My quarrel lies, as it has since 1979 (where you alive back then?) with its government and the policies it puts forth. Honestly, you have no idea what Iran under the ayatollahs is capable of, nor what they will or won’t do in any given set of circumstances. To be honest, I don’t have any great insight, either.

Reuters:

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Wearing a brightly colored headscarf and high-heeled boots, the woman refused to be bundled into the police van without a fight.

Protesting loudly and even trying to escape, her standoff with Iranian police cracking down on women violating the Islamic dress code lasted several minutes. But the outcome of the drama shortly after dusk on a cold winter’s day on Tehran’s most famous boulevard was never in doubt. Two female police officers in head-to-toe black chadors pushed her into the white vehicle which then drove off into the bustle of tree-lined Vali-ye Asr Avenue.

“Hijab problem,” one male onlooker said, referring to the clothes women must wear in Iran to cover their hair and disguise the shape of their bodies to conform with Iran’s Islamic laws.

Based in Tehran for the past year, I have often written about police detaining women who challenge the dress codes that have been more strictly enforced under President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. But this was the first time I saw it happening.

To judge by the passers-by who stopped in the lamplight on the snowy pavement, or the people peeping out through the windows of the neighborhood grocery store where I was buying milk, my curiosity was shared.

The dark-haired woman, who appeared to be in her 30s, argued in a high-pitched voice with a burly, bearded male police officer towering over her in his green uniform. When his female colleague put a hand on the woman’s shoulder to lead her into the van, she angrily pushed it away and shouted. Then suddenly she turned and tried to run away.

She did not get far. The two female officers grabbed her and shoved her into the police vehicle. The door was slammed shut and the van disappeared into Tehran’s evening rush hour.

T.

9

Holy shit! That is horrible! I didn’t know that was happening in the Muslim world. Should we liberate them from themselves?? I think they need democracy, and maybe even Christianity.

Seriously, I know that the women in the Muslim world don’t enjoy western style freedoms, but that is their way of life. Not only do I not want to do anything about it, but I also don’t sit around thinking that I want to save them. Is that treatment of their women ideal, of course not. But they would also argue that we treat our women terribly and would give such examples as pornography, violance rates against women in our society (rape, incest, etc et), the number of women in the workforce, etc etc.

10

You know, at this point Bush has little support for the war, but one group that you think would support any effort that might secularize the region would be NOW. Women and girls live a harsh and male controlled existence in much of the middle east.

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Seriously, I know that the women in the Muslim world don’t enjoy western style freedoms, but that is their way of life.

Interesting. At what point do you consider it proper to intervene? Seriously- how bad does a group need to be oppressed in another nation before military intervention is warranted?

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BTW, the NIE did not say that exactly, but it was written so obtusely that it takes a much more careful reading than the press gave it to determine that. Either the NIE was poorly written (again!) or the IC was deliberately trying to poke the administration in the eye - both equally plausible in my view. I sure don’t miss that circus.

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"I’d let you serve as a rifleman in one of my fireteams, "

BK, why do you always sound like a war waiting to happen? Are you just pissed off that you born just a bit too late and missed the big one in Nam? I assume you didn’t actually see combat in your military career? If so then count your blessings. If you had I’d bet some of your views might be a bit more subdued?

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Interesting. At what point do you consider it proper to intervene? Seriously- how bad does a group need to be oppressed in another nation before military intervention is warranted?

Are we still discussing liberating ALL women in ALL muslim countries? If that’s what we are discussing, then my answer is never would I consider it proper to intervene.

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How many of those women who were punished because of their clothing you think would appreciate the liberty brought by american tanks ? seems like you have no insight on this either, so let me tell you, ZERO.

You sound like a little kid who is given a toy gun and all he cares about is shooting with it. Where the bullets hit is not his business.

as the other poster pointed out, I doubt if you have seen a real war yourself (yes I have as a civilian for 8 years), otherwise you wouldn’t be marshing on the wardrum so loudly.

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OK. Do you see how women are treated in these nations as a bad thing? How would you change it?

How about some of the genocide going on in Africa right now? Is military intervention warranted there?

I’ve seen you scream and yell about the military in here many times, but there are certainly times when military force is warranted. Its definitely not a black and white issue, more of a VERY LARGE continuum.

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OK. Do you see how women are treated in these nations as a bad thing? How would you change it?

I would not attempt to change it. It is their culture. Just like I wouldn’t want trying to change our culture.

How about some of the genocide going on in Africa right now? Is military intervention warranted there?

Maybe. But if there is militray intervention required in Africa, then it should come from African peace keepers (African Union), or from the United Nations. The US should not take unilateral military action in Africa. Refer to how successgul we were in the Balkans and what a fairlure we are in Iraq and Mogadishu (another Bush action).

I’ve seen you scream and yell about the military in here many times, but there are certainly times when military force is warranted. Its definitely not a black and white issue, more of a VERY LARGE continuum.

I have never screamed about the military. The military is powerless - the military is run by a civilian government. Of course, I think there are times when US military action is warranted, but that is only when we are threatened. I believe our military should be defensive and not offensive. Perhaps, pre-emptive, but only when our way of live and security is at risk. Africa and women being mistreated in the ME do not fall under the category of national security priorities for America, and never will.

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Africa and women being mistreated in the ME do not fall under the category of national security priorities for America, and never will.

Africa- large angry/poor population. Easy to direct that anger and fury (this just might have been done before…) towards someplace you idealogically oppose.

ME- greater personal freedoms there really are just a side benefit of our national security.

What I’m seeing here is you wanting to secure your own rights here in the US, but turning your back to the rest of the world. “Not my problem” isn’t a very good answer.

BTW, Mogadishu happened in '93- who was prez then?

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BTW, Mogadishu happened in '93- who was prez then?

Why don’t you research and you will find that Bush Sr. sent in the troops into Mogadishu. They were supposed to have left by December before Clinton’s inaguration. It was in the first few months of Clinton’s administration that “blackhawk” happened, but it was entirely a Bush Sr. fuck up.

20

You are wrong here. You have to differentiate between UNOSOM 1; UNITAF; and UNOSOM II. Hint: it has to do with mission creep that occured in early Clinton administration. UNISOM I (under Bush 41) was very successful in the limited objectives it sought to accomplish. Last time I brought this precision to a similar discussion I got the sneering/dismissive reference from Vitus about “having the t-shirt” or some such putdown that ignored the validity of my point. Do a little reseach on the differing missions and which administration signed us up for which one–and under what conditions?